Noob Reporting for Duty

x2percentmilk
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Noob Reporting for Duty

Post by x2percentmilk »

Hi all,

I've been keen on getting into some form of motorsports for a few years now while, and hill climbing seems right up my alley. I recently purchased a high mileage, stock 1995 miata, and I've been working on making sure the basics are covered and that its road worthy, driving it around when I can on the street. I plan on ordering a helmet this week and was considering wetting my feet at a few auto-crosses so I can feel out the car a bit more. I'd like to do at least one hill climb event before the year is over, that way I can really decide if this is something I'd like to do before I invest in safety and minor performance mods for next season. Does it sound like I'm on the right track? Will I be able to run in a stock miata with just a full face helmet?

In the meantime I saw that the NEHA website (which is very informative, thank you) recommends volunteering, and I see Okemo is coming up and isn't too far a drive for me. I have a friend that might be interested as well. Do we just show up on friday, or is there someone I should be in contact with first? To keep costs down I was considering camping - VT mentions there are some primitive sites near the mountain (http://www.vtstateparks.com/pdfs/okemo_primitive.pdf), does anyone have any experience with this or any better ideas?

Oh one more thing - I noticed that this isn't really a spectator sport, understandable, but would I be able to drag (I mean, bring :lol: ) my fiance along to these events?

Thanks!
-Matt
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Rabbit Farmer
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Re: Noob Reporting for Duty

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

x2percentmilk wrote:Will I be able to run in a stock miata with just a full face helmet?
Need 2.5# ABC fire ext mounted with metal bracket.

Soft to or hard top?

Walter will weigh in on this part.
x2percentmilk wrote:In the meantime I saw that the NEHA website (which is very informative, thank you) recommends volunteering, and I see Okemo is coming up and isn't too far a drive for me. I have a friend that might be interested as well. Do we just show up on friday, or is there someone I should be in contact with first?


Your friend can show up Friday anytime or Saturday earlier to volunteer.
x2percentmilk wrote:To keep costs down I was considering camping - VT mentions there are some primitive sites near the mountain (http://www.vtstateparks.com/pdfs/okemo_primitive.pdf), does anyone have any experience with this or any better ideas?
I do not.... we used to camp down the road at the Squirrel Hideway (or something-ah-rather) campground, but they closed years ago. Have been spliting a condo with friends and enemies ever since.
x2percentmilk wrote:Oh one more thing - I noticed that this isn't really a spectator sport, understandable, but would I be able to drag (I mean, bring :lol: ) my fiance along to these events?
Able to watch at the start line or near the first checkpoint. This is a short walk up the ski slope from the start line... it is a large building with a huge deck that is great for watching.

Steve
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
x2percentmilk
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Re: Noob Reporting for Duty

Post by x2percentmilk »

Thanks for the response. Fire extinguisher - check.

The car is currently a soft top without a roll bar, but there is a small chance that I will have a hardtop before I run - though still no roll-bar if I could get by as a cage would be in the works this winter if I decide to run regularly. I could always just assume that I will enjoy this ( I know I will) and invest into more safety equipment up front if that is advisable, but I'm not sure how realistic that would be before this year is over.
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Re: Noob Reporting for Duty

Post by drummingpariah »

I'll weigh in here, I just went through everything you're going through. You must have a roll bar, and I HIGHLY recommend a rear-braced bar (crash results for a single hoop aren't good - it kind of works like a mousetrap). One hoop with two braces that go through the rear shelf/package-tray and bolt to the floor (don't bolt to the package tray, it's extremely weak). If you're going to run a soft top, you'll need arm restraints (I borrowed some for the last event, and attached them to my belt, and that was the bare minimum to get to run).

If you can get a hard top, sell it to me so I don't need to buy arm restraints of my own. I used this extinguisher and bracket
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002NC0N/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002ND64

I mounted it to my package shelf, behind the passenger's seat, and it was easy to reach. The 'standard' location is right in front of the passenger's seat, on the floor. Both work fine, just make sure it's easily accessible, and you can reach it with your seat belt on.

Double-check anything that might leak - Any fluid leaks can not only ruin your event, but can ruin everyone else's fun too. Otherwise, just make sure the car's in reasonably good condition: wheel hubs shouldn't have any play, steering shouldn't have free play, brakes need to work, and you need a working (louder is better, your life may depend on it) horn.

Lots of us bring our SO's along, and some (like Steve, above) end up fighting over who gets to drive the fast car. If she's interested in coming, you're welcome to register as double drivers. We normally have two run groups, and a few cars that have two alternating drivers. The only thing better than a supportive fiancee is an excited fiancee.

If she isn't interested in driving the hill (like my girlfriend, for instance), we're ALWAYS looking for additional safety workers. It's kind of a fun job, and she'd get a free lunch out of it.

I hope this helps answer some of your immediate questions.

*EDIT*
If I could do the roll bar over again, I'd go with the Hard Dog Ace - http://www.bethania-garage.com/ace.htm - For $355 plus shipping, it's the least expensive and most versatile solution to the 'my car is a convertible' problem I could find. If you can find one used (but not rolled), even better.

It'll work with your current soft top as well as a future hard top, isn't extremely expensive, and is proven to be very effective in a rollover. Installation is a little bit of a pain, so set some time aside (no more than a weekend) for that.
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Re: Noob Reporting for Duty

Post by walterclark »

What ^^ he ^^ said.
The older I get the better I was.
x2percentmilk
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Re: Noob Reporting for Duty

Post by x2percentmilk »

Thanks so much for the tips. I suppose I'll be well within the 'breakout' times as a novice with a stock miata, and the roll bar will suffice? I like being safe and don't want to skimp. I like the hard dog bar a lot - i suppose I could always sell it and upgrade if things get more serious.

Oh thanks for mentioning leaks - I've got a couple minor drips I've noted and will be taking care of, but no major leaks to speak of.
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drummingpariah
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Re: Noob Reporting for Duty

Post by drummingpariah »

x2percentmilk wrote:Thanks so much for the tips. I suppose I'll be well within the 'breakout' times as a novice with a stock miata, and the roll bar will suffice? I like being safe and don't want to skimp. I like the hard dog bar a lot - i suppose I could always sell it and upgrade if things get more serious.

Oh thanks for mentioning leaks - I've got a couple minor drips I've noted and will be taking care of, but no major leaks to speak of.
It's a lot to take in, so here's a complete list of the minimum requirements for you to participate:
  • Registration (submit as soon as possible!)
  • $170 for anyone, $160 for members of one of the sponsoring clubs (KSCC, SCCNH, SCCV, etc)
  • Medical release form (sign at the event)
  • Tow release form (sign at the event)
  • Driver's license (show at the event)
  • Roll bar (rear bracing isn't explicitly required in the rules, but if the safety techs aren't comfortable, you'll fail) -must be built to the same spec as a roll cage, meaning 1.5" OD x 0.095" wall steel DOM tubing
  • 2.5lb or larger ABC fire extinguisher with a metal strap (no plastic), if it's larger it needs two straps
  • SA2005 or SA2010 (preferred) helmet - I bought mine through SafeRacer and was very pleased with their prices and service, but order it at least a week in advance!
  • Numbers - You can get away with tape/marker on your windows or vinyl magnets/stickers on your door, just make sure it's at least 3" tall (double-check that number, I'm not 100% confident in it) and won't go away because of wind or rain.
  • Enough gas for the weekend - I used less than 1/4 tank during Ascutney, but the last thing you want is to miss a run because you were a bit too low
  • A complete lack of ego
If you're running a soft top, you'll ALSO need arm restraints and an appropriately strong belt. Ideally, you'll have an SFI-approved or recent FIA 5-6 point harness with a camlock that you can attach the arm restraints to. Whatever you do for arm restraints, it needs to keep your hands from flopping against the ground if you roll over and the cloth top tears away, and is at the final discretion of safety tech. If you can't afford a hard top (they're expensive!) put some thought into what would happen in a rollover, and how you can keep that from being catastrophic.

Make SURE you're there Friday evening (before 4, ideally) so you can go through rookie orientation That's a pretty simple process where you hop in the back of a pickup with someone who knows what they're talking about, and go on a scenic tour of the hill so you can get a rough familiarity with it. You may want to view some Youtube videos from past seasons to have an idea of what the hill layout looks like, but they really don't give any indication of how much grade there really is (they're STEEP hills).

Sometime around rookie orientation, you'll want to pass your car through tech. The first time through tech, you'll want to get it done as soon as possible in case you missed something that could still be fixed that night. You'll want to make sure you have plenty of meat left on your brake pads as well. We bring all the cars down from the top of the hill together, and while we aren't racing, the pace is brisk and coming down a mountain can be hard on brakes. I ran fresh stock pads on Ascutney and didn't have any issues, but I wouldn't feel as comfortable with less meaty pads.

Finally, I'd recommend bringing along a video camera that you can safety attach to the car. You'll remember the first few runs as a blur of excitement and adrenaline, and you're going to want to review what you did right and wrong after-the-fact. Video footage is really helpful for that.

Maintenance
Hillclimbs can be rough on cars, and when you treat them roughly minor drips can develop into major leaks pretty quickly. Interpret that how you will, and do what you can within your budget. I had a minor valve cover gasket leak that smelled like burning oil inside the car and I rolled the dice on it, and got lucky in that it never got worse. Another car came in with a very minor transmission leak that ended one of his runs and halted everyone else's runs for 15 minutes. I was waiting on the start line for 15 minutes while our heroic volunteer safety worker crew cleaned up the mess enough that we could continue. Be aware of things that could plausibly break or cause problems, and fix anything that's likely to break or cause problems.

Breakout and Goal-setting
I haven't run Okemo personally, but I think it's the least likely hill to break out in with an underpowered car. Breakout is 2:47 I believe, and ChiefGeek, who also runs an NB Miata, had a best time of 3:04.00 last year (respectable). He's far from a slow driver, but don't expect to approach breakout your first time on a hill. For now, don't worry about times. If you REALLY want to set a goal for yourself, try to get comfortable enough with the hill that you can keep up with the slowest person who drives the Woo (you'll understand what I mean when you see it).

Roll Bar
Those 4point roll bars are a GREAT start for a cage, if that's what you're referring to as 'serious'. I started with a 'lol bar' (a single main hoop, with no bracing) and added a couple braces to it before this past event. It gave me a frame of reference to build off of, and I already knew exactly what spec the steel was I was starting with. That's also the most difficult area of the car to fabricate in, the forward sections are much more accessible than the trunk area so it saves a lot of work. It's also a good investment for a daily driver (accidents happen, after all).

Here's the result of my bar with added bracing, as I raced it. It's not pretty, but it's safe.
Image

Don't get overwhelmed
It's ok to be nervous or anxious, but if you feel completely overwhelmed, sit a run out. If you're already feeling overwhelmed, just volunteer to work for an event and see how things run. Working safety is surprisingly fun, and there's no chance (ok, very little chance) of damaging your vehicle that way.

I need to go fire up my server and get it accessible so everyone has somewhere to put all their video footage from Ascutney, but I'm happy to answer any questions you have in way too much detail.
x2percentmilk
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Re: Noob Reporting for Duty

Post by x2percentmilk »

I absolutely appreciate the long response, and the boiled down list. I hadn't considered using the roll bar as a starting point for the cage - that's a good idea. I also overlooked the camera as a self-training tool, though I was hoping to pick one up anyway.

I'm only on the brink of being overwhelmed haha. I think I'll keep planning on working a corner in an upcoming event. I think getting some more maintenance done on the car (fluids, brakes, hoses and such to fix those drips), and a solid roll bar/harness setup is doable before the end of the season so I can at least get one run in - even if it ends up being Philo in October :lol:

Also my ego is pretty small, I'll really only be competing against myself - though I'm interested in seeing this "Woo" (daewoo?)
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Re: Noob Reporting for Duty

Post by jPill »

I did okemo as my first event last summer. 100% worth doing and everyone is incredibly nice and helpful. I'd Really recommend getting out there if you can
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sdwarf36
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Re: Noob Reporting for Duty

Post by sdwarf36 »

Milk- where in Ct. are you?
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
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