Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

jkale
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Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

Post by jkale »

I am curious about the rules of the rally class this year at the hills.

I am close to completion of my Rally car and probably dont have enough time to build another chassis before the hillclimb season starts.

Can I run my rally car in the RA Rally Class AND for overall points for NEHA at the hills? What are the rules regarding this? What I have heard has been very vague and there seems to be some confusion...
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KevinGale
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Re: Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

Post by KevinGale »

That is a very good question. So far I know little about how the rally cars are classed or scored. In theory I should bug someone about this but I've got other things to do with my spare time (like getting my car ready to race).

My intent was to treat the rally classes like other NEHA classes. So they would receive NEHA points. They would also receive points in their rally series but that is really outside of NEHA so there is no reason as I see things to deny them NEHA points. These are NEHA entries that follow the same basic tech and safety rules as any other entry. The only rules changes we have for the rally cars don't give them a performance advantage. In fact having to carry a navigator up the hill is a disadvantage.

I also want to be clear that this situation is not at all like the situation with the motorcycles. In that case the motorcycles are not NEHA entries. They have their own insurance, rules and tech process. They just share the venue.
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sdwarf36
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Re: Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

Post by sdwarf36 »

I 'm open for discussion on it. The other clubs would have to agree. The main sticking point I see is having a passenger-I know its a disadvantage--but we have had people ask in the past if the can bring someone along and have been told no. As long as its not a case where someone wants to "drive rally class in A group-and NEHA in B group" i see no advantage -actually the turbo cars have to run a restrictor according to Don.

Anyone else see any major Pluses or minuses about it?
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
jkale
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Re: Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

Post by jkale »

Well, Sherm, that is exactly what I want to do...

In order to gain points for RA Regional Series, I would have to comply to their 34mm restrictor rule... Which would give me a huge disadvantage for competing for overall points for the NEHA series..

I want to make a "quick-change" restrictor setup that would allow me to run in the rally class in one group, kick my codriver out, pull the restrictor, then run in the other group unrestricted and lighter.. I have a feeling there would be a huge difference in time..

Is this allowed? Or is there a rule stating I cannot do this.. Technically, in the rally class, I am entered in RA AND NEHA..

So, can I run the same car in both groups?

Would you consider it the same car? Restricted vs. Unrestricted?
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kturner
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Re: Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

Post by kturner »

I just joined this forum but run with RA and am curious about how the rally cars are going to be scheduled and scored. There is nothing on the Rally America site and I figured someone here might know more.

Looking at the event schedules there is a meeting on friday with saturday practice and sunday scored? are the rally cars going to be scored on saturday? if not, are they going to have a separate schedule for tech etc? If they are not scored for saturday, having to attend the friday hill rookie meeting adds another day of time investment for travel if not local.

thanks for any info.
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sachilles
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Re: Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

Post by sachilles »

When Paul proposed this to SCCV at our meeting.
He said the big difference was the timing was cumulative for the rally class. So if we have 4 runs on sat and 5 on sunday. Their total time for the 9 runs is what they would use to rank them. He said rather than put the calculations on neha scoring, that we just send all the times in to RA and they'd crunch the numbers assigning series points. Not sure if there is a potential issue, with making sure that the rally class folks end up with the same amount of runs as each other.
He did say they were suppose get a recce on friday and my understanding was that was at the hill speed limit.
I was under the impression the entry fee for the rally class was suppose to be a few dollars higher for some reason, but not sure why.

I don't see an issue with someone entering both a rally class and a NEHA class separately, if they do separate entries. I think the only issue is a timing issue similar to what double drivers face, trying to get the car up the hill with one driver, then get the other driver in a second run group. You are going to have to get good at changing that restrictor quickly Joey :lol: . I didn't think you could run turbo on your first year with RA.
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kindabratty328
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Re: Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

Post by kindabratty328 »

According to NEHA rules you can run both A and B group if you have two separate entries and are driving two separate vehicles. You can't drive the same car in both. I'm sure Kevin can tell you exactly what the rule is.
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walterclark
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Re: Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

Post by walterclark »

kturner wrote:I just joined this forum but run with RA and am curious about how the rally cars are going to be scheduled and scored. There is nothing on the Rally America site and I figured someone here might know more.

Looking at the event schedules there is a meeting on friday with saturday practice and sunday scored? are the rally cars going to be scored on saturday? if not, are they going to have a separate schedule for tech etc? If they are not scored for saturday, having to attend the friday hill rookie meeting adds another day of time investment for travel if not local.

thanks for any info.
Like you i havent seen anything definitive published, other than our event dates. I assumed RA was going to come down with written rules for these things, but who knows. This is how I understand the rally car participation based on random conversations and listening to Paul Gilbin's pitch to the clubs. Much of it is the same as was done last year by the SCCNH when rally cars were invited to Ascutney before the climbs were added to the RA regional schedule.

Scrutineering will be within the hillcimb tech schedule (published in the info sheet for each event) on Friday evening (usually around 4PM to dark). Don Taylor and I will be doing tech/scrutineering and we are both licensed RA/SFI scrutineers. Friday afternoon the hill should be open for reccie and making notes at posted speed limits while the hill is being set up. You will not need to have passed scrutineering or or signed in at registration (so you are just civilian car driving up a public road) to do reccie. We do a familiarization or "fam" run Saturday and Sunday morning and the rally cars can participate. This will be your best chance for a practice - although it is more like a parade - especially if a slow driver is up front somewhere. The rally cars will be timed for each subsequent timed "run" and all times both days are added for the final time. The number of runs each day depends on a number of factors but each rally car will need to run the same number of runs as the regular hilllcimb cars. My understanding is any missed runs will be scored with a bogey time but I am not sure what that will be based on. The runs are usually broken into 2 random but about equal sized run groups, called A and B. You will be expected to line up and run with your group, although switching groups can be done on a limited basis if the need arises. There is no predefined start order for each group and it is normal for the order to vary at random for each run.

As mentioned already your time will be forwarded to RA at the end for final scoring, place and points within your normal RA class although you will know how you did thanks to Kevins timekeeping system.
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sdwarf36
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Re: Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

Post by sdwarf36 »

New England Hillclimb Series
Regulations · 2010

4. If there are more than 2 drivers in a car, or more than 2 cars per driver,
those drivers may not get a full set of runs, despite regulation 16. One
entry per car, per driver.


16. Practice and timed runs will be done in “heats.” Entrants will have the same
opportunity for the same number of runs. If an entrant cannot make a run
during the allotted time, he/she will forfeit that run and take the next run.

If it was allowed, Arlo would have been doing it years ago. :lol:
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
jkale
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Re: Hillclimbing AND Rally Class

Post by jkale »

That doesnt seem right..

What is the difference in paying 2 entries and driving 2 different cars vs paying 2 entries and driving the same car with 2 different power levels?

What is the reasoning for this rule?

To not give someone an advantage?

I would understand if it was a rally and no one had driven the course before, but we have all driven the roads before.. most of us know them fairly well..

If the reason for 2 entries was to learn the course, then entering in 2 different cars still gives you the same advantage.. right?
-Joey Kale #111
Kale's Custom LLC.
802-448-3790
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