2013 Rules Proposals

[KevinGale]

Actually reading Don's proposal again it does appear to give specific wording and say where the wording should be added. In the past we have passed some things that were more an idea than specific changes and that caused problems. I'll still take a look to see exactly what the changes would look like in case there are any problems.

The best submissions provide the before wording and the after wording. And if they are adding something they say exactly where it should be added.

The after wording is important so people can see and hear exactly what we are voting on.

[KevinGale]

Here is my interpretation of Don's proposal. New text is in bold italic. The forum removed the paragraph indentation but you get the idea.

Street Prepared
This category is based on stock production vehicles that are easily recognized as such, and must have operational lights, horn, glass, wipers, mirrors, door handles, bumpers, bumper reinforcement bars, heater and dashboard. The following items may be removed: emissions equipment, sound deadening, sound system, head liner, floor covering, trunk area covering, rear seating (provided that proper separation remains or is installed between driver and fuel area). Removal in excess of the above invokes the excessive lightening penalty.
Plastic side and rear windows will invoke the excessive lightening penalty unless 30 lbs of compensating weight is added to the car.
Doors may not have any structure removed causing them to be excessively lightened –
ie; intrusion bar, outer framework and basic structure of the door must remain intact.
The floor and trunk area must remain intact and in stock location. Any modifications to
the floor or trunk area must be sealed as good as the factory original. All exterior body
panels must appear as stock and remain in place (fender flares are free).
Relocation of accessories, batteries, fuel system, electrical components is allowed, provided that the exterior of vehicle remains as produced.
Basic modifications can be made for purpose of adding safety equipment
Interchange of production options within the model is free (while adhering to the adjustments from the norm section). Engine/ driveline modifications are allowed.
Rim size may be changed. Tire size is free but the tread may not be seen from above. Tires must be DOT approved. Wheel openings shall retain their original contour when viewed from the side.
The above paragraphs do not void any applicable safety requirements as listed in the Technical and Safety Requirements.

[sachilles]

Here is my interpretation of Don's proposal. New text is in bold italic. The forum removed the paragraph indentation but you get the idea.

Street Prepared
This category is based on stock production vehicles that are easily recognized as such, and must have operational lights, horn, glass, wipers, mirrors, door handles, bumpers, bumper reinforcement bars, heater and dashboard. The following items may be removed: emissions equipment, sound deadening, sound system, head liner, floor covering, trunk area covering, rear seating (provided that proper separation remains or is installed between driver and fuel area). Removal in excess of the above invokes the excessive lightening penalty.
Plastic side and rear windows will invoke the excessive lightening penalty unless 30 lbs of compensating weight is added to the car.

Re-reading this. You may remove operational lights, horn, glass, wipers, mirrors, door handles, bumpers, bumper reinforcement bars, heater and dashboard provided you take the excessive lightening penalty.

Am I reading that correctly, and is that the intent?

[sdwarf36]

Yea--that. That should keep Statler + Waldorf from having to order more beers while the re-writes on bar napkins go on.

[Rabbit Farmer]

Great... now I need to figure out other opportunities to get my drinks.....

Seth... I edited your post to get rid of the extra and code. Hopefully I edited properly.

[KevinGale]

Here is my interpretation of Don's proposal. New text is in bold italic. The forum removed the paragraph indentation but you get the idea.

Street Prepared
This category is based on stock production vehicles that are easily recognized as such, and must have operational lights, horn, glass, wipers, mirrors, door handles, bumpers, bumper reinforcement bars, heater and dashboard. The following items may be removed: emissions equipment, sound deadening, sound system, head liner, floor covering, trunk area covering, rear seating (provided that proper separation remains or is installed between driver and fuel area). Removal in excess of the above invokes the excessive lightening penalty.
Plastic side and rear windows will invoke the excessive lightening penalty unless 30 lbs of compensating weight is added to the car.

Re-reading this. You may remove operational lights, horn, glass, wipers, mirrors, door handles, bumpers, bumper reinforcement bars, heater and dashboard provided you take the excessive lightening penalty.

Am I reading that correctly, and is that the intent?

I'm sure that isn't the intent. The first sentence says the verhicle must have those items. So they can't be removed. Then it talks about what can be removed and says removals beyond that are excessive lightening. But you still can't remove the things that are required.

Some of this stuff could be covered by the drive by a police officer test. You should be able to drive by a police officer in the day or night and not immediately be pulled over.

[walterclark]

Maybe if the sentences are separated into 2 paragraphs, that will eliminate the implication that "excess lightening " may include removal of the "must have" items as well as the "in excess of" things.

Street Prepared
This category is based on stock production vehicles that are easily recognized as such, and must have operational lights, horn, glass, wipers, mirrors, door handles, bumpers, bumper reinforcement bars, heater and dashboard.

The following items may be removed: emissions equipment, sound deadening, sound system, head liner, floor covering, trunk area covering, rear seating (provided that proper separation remains or is installed between driver and fuel area). Removal in excess of the above invokes the excessive lightening penalty.

Plastic side and rear windows will invoke the excessive lightening penalty unless 30 lbs of compensating weight is added to the car.
Doors may not have any structure removed causing them to be excessively lightened –
ie; intrusion bar, outer framework and basic structure of the door must remain intact.
The floor and trunk area must remain intact and in stock location. Any modifications to
the floor or trunk area must be sealed as good as the factory original. All exterior body
panels must appear as stock and remain in place (fender flares are free).
Relocation of accessories, batteries, fuel system, electrical components is allowed, provided that the exterior of vehicle remains as produced.
Basic modifications can be made for purpose of adding safety equipment
Interchange of production options within the model is free (while adhering to the adjustments from the norm section). Engine/ driveline modifications are allowed.
Rim size may be changed. Tire size is free but the tread may not be seen from above. Tires must be DOT approved. Wheel openings shall retain their original contour when viewed from the side.
The above paragraphs do not void any applicable safety requirements as listed in the Technical and Safety Requirements.

Where the heck is that " coming from at the top of the quote?

[Rabbit Farmer]

Where the heck is that " coming from at the top of the quote?

That's normal. It is the look of the quoted text.

[KevinGale]

We can do that Walter.

[Chief Geek]

Are we OK allowing safety items like OEM door intrusion bars to be removed under the free updating/back-dating rule?

For example, a 1990 Miata door can easily be installed on a 1996 Miata, but the '90 door is half the weight of the '96 because of the extra impact structure. The old door on the newer car would seem to be perfectly legal.

Clearly, a dead-stock 1990 car is perfectly legal, but with uncontrolled updating/back-dating, the more powerful, better handling car could contain a bunch of parts that are less robust than Hiroshima intended.

I can see this being the case with seats, bumper reinforcement bars, and a pile of other things.

I don't have a strong opinion either way, I just want to avoid unintended consequences.

I've grown fond of walking upright, so no matter what the rules are, I'll be leaving the heavier driver's door in place. The passenger door however...

Paul