Project Fiero

Re: Project Fiero

Postby hammer » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:40 am

Thanks for the article. It was a good read. So I guess my only concern with using a straight racing oil is that this car is primarily a summer vehicle that I will use once a month for racing. And since racing oils have fewer detergents the article doesn't recommend using them for everyday use as they will get dirty fast. But the flip side is that these are the oils that have the recommended amount of ZDDP. Whereas regular use oils have far less.
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby walterclark » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:15 pm

Low detergent oils do not get "dirty fast". In fact compared to full detergent oils they appear to get dirty more slowly. However they DO saturate with contaminants faster and the remaining contaminants will settle out somewhere, but probably not in the filter.

Traditional race oils in fact do not contain much of a detergent additive package (they focus mostly on shear resistance) and for the above reason are really not great for daily use. True synthetic oils are by nature higher detergent oil than traditional produced oil. In fact that was one of the big knocks regarding using synthetic in old worn engines...they tend to clean up the mess left behind, and often that led to leaking of old seals and oil consumption. Some synthetic also failed to maintain the same seal oil content as was present with traditional oil so the seals shrunk and leaked. Mobil 1 was pretty bad in this regard some years back.

Amsoil synthetic race oil, the Dominator line as it is called currently, is at least as detergent as regular synthetic oils. So that should not be a concern. Its better than the rest of the Amsoil auto oils in terms of high temp, high RPM and high shear-stress performance found in racing engines. One could argue that in hillclimbing we dont abuse engines as much in those ways as longer duration racing, but we do tend to be harder on the engine by going from cold to abuse to off suddenly and often, which can be even worse in some ways. In recent years Amsoil has been pretty big in a number of types of racing and these oils are a direct result. They are the same ones used.

In the interest of full disclosure, I need to point out that I am not only an Amsoil customer of some 40 years, but for the last 15 or so have been a dealer (that used to be the only way to get Amsoil, then it was the only way to get it below retail, now its just habit). I dont sell the stuff (well I would be happy to if someone asked and I could save them a few bucks, but I dont push it). I have flirted with other oils at times including Syntech, Valvoline and Mobil 1, but came back to Amsoil each time. With the exception of the '12 Sprinter. It uses a special low sulphated ash diesel engine oil and right now the only product sold in the US that is officially approved by MB is a specific Mobil 1 product. Amsoil makes a product that claims to meet the MB 229.51 requirements and appears to be a much better oil than the Mobil 1, but the Amsoil oil has not been included in the official MB approved list and while under the vehicle emissions system warranty I do not want to give MB lawyers any excuse to not cover some expensive parts.
The older I get the better I was.
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby hammer » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:45 pm

Thanks for the info Walter! Amsoil looks like it's a really good oil, but I'm thinking at this point of sticking with something a little cheaper. Especially since it's not a modified race engine. A street use full synthetic should do well for what I need.
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby drummingpariah » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:42 am

This discussion is really helpful for me as well, ZDDP is a big concern with my engines (Datsuns had brass valve seats until 1977) so it's kind of critical to keep specific additives in the oil.

Sam, do you know what class you'll be running in this season? Are you planning to make all the events?
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby sdwarf36 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:08 pm

Not brass-it's a form of bronze. And if you get any form of oil on your intake seats,you got big problems.
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby drummingpariah » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:52 pm

Righto, leaded gas meant b-letter-metal was more good-er. ZDDP oil something something old cars, internet said it's important?

No matter how much I think I understand, there are always nuances that catch me off guard. This is why I like having you more experienced folks around, and why this thread is so helpful.
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby hammer » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:51 pm

Sam, do you know what class you'll be running in this season? Are you planning to make all the events?


I'll be running in S5, the same class I ran at Philo last fall. Sadly both Luke and I will be missing the first two events due to previously scheduled events. (Too bad best friends don't understand you'd rather be racing than in their wedding...just kidding) So our first event will be Burke I and we're planning on doing the last 5 races so we can still qualify for points. Have you figured out which class you'll be in?
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http://moultroupracing.blogspot.com/
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1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
1985 Honda Nighthawk S
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby drummingpariah » Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:28 pm

hammer wrote:
Sam, do you know what class you'll be running in this season? Are you planning to make all the events?


I'll be running in S5, the same class I ran at Philo last fall. Sadly both Luke and I will be missing the first two events due to previously scheduled events. (Too bad best friends don't understand you'd rather be racing than in their wedding...just kidding) So our first event will be Burke I and we're planning on doing the last 5 races so we can still qualify for points. Have you figured out which class you'll be in?


It's either going to be S4 or S2, but there are still a bunch of variables to consider. I'd really like to come up with funds for a cage, wheels/tires, and springs/struts, keeping me in S4 class. If I do all that AND swap the turbo engine out for one of the naturally aspirated engines, I can barely squeeze into SP5 (and the car would be competitive there, even if I'm not). Either way, that's a big chunk of cash to come up with in short time, so I have the 240z, a pair of my ar15's, and my third (Yamaha xs650) motorcycle up for sale.
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby hammer » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:20 pm

Cool. I look forward to seeing your car at the hills!

A pair of AR-15s you say? How much you asking?
Sam Moultroup
http://moultroupracing.blogspot.com/
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1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
1985 Honda Nighthawk S
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby drummingpariah » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:23 pm

hammer wrote:Cool. I look forward to seeing your car at the hills!

Me too! Or on the street! Or anywhere, running!

hammer wrote:A pair of AR-15s you say? How much you asking?

PM'd, this isn't necessarily related to your build, no matter HOW interesting it is.
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