1973 VW Super-Beetle(1303) Hill-Climb Build

Re: My 1973 1303 I bought for a dollar

Postby walterclark » Sat May 30, 2015 7:01 am

The reason I asked about oil... Synthetic oils will "thin" less as they heat up so the oil pressure will tend to be a little more consistent across a cool-hot range than non-synthetics with the same range (e.g. 10W-30). Synthetics also require fewer modifiers to obtain the wider numbers (such as 10W-40) so tend to perform longer.

I use Amsoil Racing 10W-30 http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/racing/dominator-10w-30-racing-oil/?code=RD30QT-EA

I see Valvoline makes a synthetic in their VR-1 product as well https://valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/8.

Either way you want to be sure your oil has a generous zinc and phosphorus anti-wear additive package for the flat tappet lifters and cam.
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Re: 1973 VW Super-Beetle(1303) Hill-Climb Build

Postby Super1303 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:03 am

So before I get started on moving things around, I have some questions.

last season I had to move the Battery into the car from where it was, under the front hood with the gas tank, to inside the car mid season.
Tech didn't like that, It made total sense, no problem.
The next event I was told the placement of my oil tank, for the engine, under the front hood with the gas tank, wasn't favorable ether.
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I see nothing in the rules about it but I don't want to be told I can't run a event because of it. Is this a possibility or just opinion?
There are other reasons to move it, the oil tank, but I'd like to keep it where it is.
The only other place for it is inside with me, it's a bug.

I'm looking to put it somewhere around here. It's the only place low enough.
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-Is there a way I can keep it where it is? I'm not really sure why it was or seen as a problem and honestly, I'd like to know why if it was.
Any input on it would be appreciated.
-What do I need to do, safety wise, if I put the oil tank inside the car with me, if I have to re-locate it?
I assume it would have to be contained, is this correct?

Thanks, Evan
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Re: 1973 VW Super-Beetle(1303) Hill-Climb Build

Postby dsldubn » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:27 pm

I don't see a problem with a battery in the car. Many of us are racing with a battery inside the cab. From my understanding, it just has to be contained in a box and have the positive terminal insulated as well. Securely fastened is a given too. Otherwise, I don't see why you'd get heat for putting the battery inside when it's done that way on several cars...and even some production vehicles.

Oil tank; seems like the best place is in the front. In the car seems way less safe that in the front, when thinking about personal safety. I do understand that someone may think it's unsafe to have a container of hot oil up front, but what does most every car out there have? A hot oil filled engine out front. I can't find anything in the rules that says you're stuff isn't good to go, but I"m not a tech inspector so not sure. Maybe it's the proximity to the gas tank? It's a bug, not much room for a lot of changes. I too would like to hear what the reason is for needing to move the oil tank.

All I know is I love this car and was psyched to see the thread pop up...but was hoping for some engine building progress hehe
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Re: 1973 VW Super-Beetle(1303) Hill-Climb Build

Postby Super1303 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:31 pm

Thanks J,
Well to be fair it was suggested, I wasn't told to move it(the oil tank) but I'd hate like hell too not do anything and be told I can't run because of it, you know.
I got in contact with Walter about it, he'll talk to Don, to see what I got to do to keep it where it is.
If I can't, whatever, it's winter and I need a bead roller and box break anyway. :lol:.
I got the battery squared away, in a box an all that, next to me on the floor. Like, yeah a battery in front of a fuel tank, head on collision- nuff said, I'm hip.

And Hell I just finished RE-LOADING all my damn pictures, from last May's 'let me reorganize Photobucket where the hell are all my pictures' mistake....
I still got stuff I did last year I ain't posted yet!

Engine; I got plans for that, I just got to save up some money first, those cases are freakin pricey dude! Especially the one's that have more room inside.....
Some of the other things, on the wish list, are installing an LSD, Stiffer rear T-Bars and new dampers.(the ones on the back are from the ninety's, no joke.) KYB's kid!

Where the hell's your thread? Injector pump. ;)
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Re: 1973 VW Super-Beetle(1303) Hill-Climb Build

Postby walterclark » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:49 pm

I spoke with Don tonite. He said he remembers asking you to move the battery, but didnt think the location of the oil tank was an issue.
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Re: 1973 VW Super-Beetle(1303) Hill-Climb Build

Postby Super1303 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:03 pm

Ok, sweet, I'll leave it then. Noooo problem.

Thanks for checking that out for me.
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Re: 1973 VW Super-Beetle(1303) Hill-Climb Build

Postby Super1303 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:20 pm

One of the first things on the list is new stiffer springs. I started with Stock springs, well the front were new and 10% stiffer and claimed to be 65# springs, the rear bars are Original sagging 1973 units, have no idea what there rated at, indexed to give me the proper ride height.
My tires are hitting/rubbing my fenders a lot in the corners.
I'm using the hell out of all my bump stops. The cars body roll in the corners some wicked.
At Ascutney you can see Light under the tire at the top section, from the video, it looks like the tire is being bounced off the bump up off the road, the suspension isn't stable too soft.
I don't want it too stiff ether but I need it to be firmer. I also plan on installing an LSD and DO like some controllable Over Steer.

I ordered the upgrade kit from Top-Line to allow me to try different, common, springs on my front struts. He set me up with 80# springs after talking to him about what the road conditions are.
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He recommended 26~28mm Bars out back too, it has 23mm bars stock. I never really played with spring rates before, especially torsion bars.
The majority of the cars weight is in the rear.
From what I can find it's about 65/35~60/40, to the rear, balance. I've read ways to determine it but the cars tore apart so it wouldn't be correct.

Any advice or rules of thumb to start with? Like, should I go with the 26mm bars or 28mm bars? IF someone if hip to em. I'm eyeing the 26mm Bars.

Typically the rear is stiffer/softer then the front yada yada. Experience?

Is there a percentage of vehicle weight to spring weight as a starter? Any good links for some informative reads on the topic or favorite calculators?

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Thanks.
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Re: 1973 VW Super-Beetle(1303) Hill-Climb Build

Postby sdwarf36 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:38 pm

There are a couple of fast VW's down In Pa. www.pahillclimb.net
Their forum is slow this time of year like ours-sign up + ask on there. Probably more sane info than from us front engine people.
But first things first-you got to get it on some scales. Hard to know where you're going if you don't know where you are.
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
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Re: 1973 VW Super-Beetle(1303) Hill-Climb Build

Postby walterclark » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:20 am

One of the problems with looking for advice from someplace like the PA series is our roads are astonishingly rough compared decent pavement which I am led to believe exists at the PA events. This could lead to selecting a setup that is way too stiff to be usable at places like Ascutney. However, front/rear spring ratios should pretty much apply to smooth or rough pavement.

Too stiff springs will result in the chassis being pushed every which way by bumps and that will reduce traction and control. I think you want the softest springs that dont bottom out on you. And you need to have enough damping to stop the wheel movement from overreacting to bumps (which can also push the suspension into the stops or tires into the body, if not controlled) but not so much as to act like more spring at high rates.

Wouldnt going to a larger rear bar make oversteer more dominant? And doesnt the Beetle already have lots of it? From what little I have read guys like to add more front bar, but not a lot of rear bar.
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Re: 1973 VW Super-Beetle(1303) Hill-Climb Build

Postby dsldubn » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:39 am

Everyone is going to have a difference in opinion. Even in my class, with very similar cars, we're all running much different set ups. Mine is stiffer than many, yet I feel the most comfortable with what I have now.

Obviously my car is completely different than yours, and in no way compares...but I've tried a bunch. First was H&R springs that were like 10% stiffer than stock. Too soft for me, felt like it was going to tip over in the corners. Then I home made coilovers with 2.5" diameter springs (cheap and tons of options). I've tried using 300, 350, and 375 in the front. 220 in the rear for all of those. I think the 300 front/ 220 rear was pretty decent overall, but it would bottom out at burke and a few other spots at different hills. I ended up with a dual spring set up in the front that works well for me, after advice from Steve. I'm using 450/300 in the front. Gives an initial rate of 180 until you bind the 300 spring, then it's on the 450 while really laying on it in the corners. It's kind of too rough at Ascutney for any of the setups really, but this set up shines everywhere else and even at ascutney before the bridge. I run no front bar, and stock rear bar, with 250lb springs in the rear. My car rotates well with a left foot brake, too well sometimes.

No help, but i think my point is take folks advice with similar set ups, but also be prepared to give 'em a try and see what makes you feel most comfortable..which will make you fastest too.
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