Howe Mod Heavy

Re: Howe Mod Heavy

Postby Challenger392 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:56 pm

Evan, redline is currently 6700, but probably could be pushed a little higher for more usable RPM range. Joey, thank you for the info I will definately look into Porter Racing Heads.
Luke Moultroup
Technical Support
Pratt & Whitney Engine Services

http://moultroupracing.blogspot.com/

2012 Dodge Challenger SRT8 392
1972 Dodge Challenger 318
2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7
2004 Mazda 6
Howe Modified
1989 Suzuki GSXR1100K
User avatar
Challenger392
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:52 pm

Re: Howe Mod Heavy

Postby Challenger392 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:07 pm

Pictures to keep people interested
Image
Image
Image
Image\

Note, the broken spring retainer was on the R/H head, the piece of keeper pictured was found on the L/H head...........
Luke Moultroup
Technical Support
Pratt & Whitney Engine Services

http://moultroupracing.blogspot.com/

2012 Dodge Challenger SRT8 392
1972 Dodge Challenger 318
2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7
2004 Mazda 6
Howe Modified
1989 Suzuki GSXR1100K
User avatar
Challenger392
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:52 pm

Re: Howe Mod Heavy

Postby sdwarf36 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:22 pm

Look at the underside of all the rocker arms-big ole' aluminum ones often are way too close to hitting the spring. (Yes you can do a bit of grinding for clearance.)
See the marks on top of the spring? Thats from it dancing around. The springs are most likely used up.
Wanna see scary? Watch this video of what a valve spring looks like at 7k. :o And this is a motor with a good rocker shaft system. (Watch the trunion bearing spin!)
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
User avatar
sdwarf36
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:06 pm

Re: Howe Mod Heavy

Postby Challenger392 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:50 pm

So here are the two valve spring options I'm looking at, the first, P/N 26055, is my best guess at a beehive design would work with my setup, current setup height is about 1.985 with a total valve lift around .550 that puts my seat pressure around 125 and open pressure around 345. This seems to me to be in line with any recommendations that I can find on beehive setups.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cca-26055-16/overview/
This second set is a double spring with damper, very similar, if not the same as what I currently have. That would give me a seat pressure of about 170 and an open pressure of 435. This is all assuming that I have 1.5-1 rockers, which I still need to verify.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cca-954-16
My only sticking points are 1 price (I know I'm cheap), and 2 the beehive design has 2 bad reviews stating that they have the possibility of up to a .2" difference in free height out of the box. Could that just be a couple bad sets? Is that normal fro new valve springs to very that much? Should I risk it and order the pricier ones with the hopes of gaining top end power? Or go with the cheaper tried and true option that matches the setup I already have. Decisions, decisions...............
Luke Moultroup
Technical Support
Pratt & Whitney Engine Services

http://moultroupracing.blogspot.com/

2012 Dodge Challenger SRT8 392
1972 Dodge Challenger 318
2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7
2004 Mazda 6
Howe Modified
1989 Suzuki GSXR1100K
User avatar
Challenger392
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:52 pm

Re: Howe Mod Heavy

Postby sdwarf36 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:15 pm

The idea of the beehive spring is that you dont need as much spring when the cam first starts to open the valve. The smaller end of the spring offers less resisitance.
Maybe you can eek out a few more rpm if everything else is maxed out. But with rocker studs-heavy valves + a fairly mild cam ( compared to whats out there nowadays), I don't see it making any gain for you. You aint trying to turn it to 8500.
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
User avatar
sdwarf36
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:06 pm

Re: Howe Mod Heavy

Postby Challenger392 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:10 pm

Ya, from what I've read it really only gains anything above 6500 due to the reduction in weight, and since my redline is 6700, I'll just go with a good double spring setup.
Luke Moultroup
Technical Support
Pratt & Whitney Engine Services

http://moultroupracing.blogspot.com/

2012 Dodge Challenger SRT8 392
1972 Dodge Challenger 318
2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7
2004 Mazda 6
Howe Modified
1989 Suzuki GSXR1100K
User avatar
Challenger392
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:52 pm

Re: Howe Mod Heavy

Postby Super1303 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:25 pm

Challenger392 wrote:Note, the broken spring retainer was on the R/H head, the piece of keeper pictured was found on the L/H head...........

Whaaaaat? That is what I will call a phenomenon. :shock:
Hello, my name is Evan and I'm a Volksaholic.
1973 Super Beetle, #666
User avatar
Super1303
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:15 pm
Location: 935 US Route 5, Sutton, Vermont 05867

Re: Howe Mod Heavy

Postby KevinGale » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:24 pm

sdwarf36 wrote:The idea of the beehive spring is that you dont need as much spring when the cam first starts to open the valve. The smaller end of the spring offers less resisitance.
Maybe you can eek out a few more rpm if everything else is maxed out. But with rocker studs-heavy valves + a fairly mild cam ( compared to whats out there nowadays), I don't see it making any gain for you. You aint trying to turn it to 8500.


The beehive is also supposed to reduce bad spring harmonics due to the shape. Not sure how much of an issue that is in practice for us. I have them in my heads since last year.
User avatar
KevinGale
 
Posts: 837
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:01 pm
Location: Sutton, NH

Re: Howe Mod Heavy

Postby sdwarf36 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:35 pm

Super1303 wrote:
Challenger392 wrote:Note, the broken spring retainer was on the R/H head, the piece of keeper pictured was found on the L/H head...........

Whaaaaat? That is what I will call a phenomenon. :shock:


Naaa-I've seen it a few times. It used to be a normal thing that you glued screens in your oil return holes to catch any debris.
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
User avatar
sdwarf36
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:06 pm

Re: Howe Mod Heavy

Postby Challenger392 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:07 pm

After going o about 4 places I finally ended up at Porter racing heads, Dwayne was super helpful and hooked me up with a discount set of spring (same as comp cams 954, came new on a set of heads, customer didn't use them), tool steel retainers and a set of 10 degree locks. Hopefully have them in before Philo. It should feel like a new beast, I found a build sheet from 2005 that states the existing springs were used at that time. It also said the seat pressure was only 160, when it should be more like 210, that suggests that the springs were already past their prime 10 years ago.
Luke Moultroup
Technical Support
Pratt & Whitney Engine Services

http://moultroupracing.blogspot.com/

2012 Dodge Challenger SRT8 392
1972 Dodge Challenger 318
2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7
2004 Mazda 6
Howe Modified
1989 Suzuki GSXR1100K
User avatar
Challenger392
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:52 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Projects

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

x