From oval track to Hill climbing

From oval track to Hill climbing

Postby Taylor_Racing » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:17 pm

My father and I have recently decided to attempt the reconfiguration of a pro stock in the hopes of having some success in the Hill climbing world. The car use to be run at Seekonk speedway i'm sure you have all seen something of the sort. We will be pulling it out of storage tomorrow so i will upload some photos in a couple days. With the short amount of time between now and the start of the season we hope to adjust alignment and weight distribution as well as a transmission swap. The car is currently equipped with only two forward gears and we are in the process of acquiring a four speed. We aren't trying to break any records just to have fun with what we have at our disposal. I'll update this post with photos and such on our progress over the next couple months and we will gladly accept any advice as the art of Hill Climbing is still foreign to us.
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Re: From oval track to Hill climbing

Postby sdwarf36 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:44 pm

Welcome!
It can --and has been done quite successfuly.
Square up the car the best you can--soften up your springs (we're bumpy) You CAN run a locked rear-but you'll do far better with a LSD or locker.
Others will chime in giving you start up alignment numbers.
You'll need a ABC handheld fire ext. with a metal bracket--even if you have an onboard system. Read up on our rules-and feel free to ask questions.
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
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Re: From oval track to Hill climbing

Postby Taylor_Racing » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:23 pm

Thanks for the advice! What would you suggest for a ride height and gear ratios? There are currently two forward speeds and we are leaning towards a four speed swap. We will likely run the locked diff for now as we aren't looking to be truly competitive this year but to just have fun and learn. We got the car out of storage and into the garage today; here are some pictures:
Image

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Re: From oval track to Hill climbing

Postby KevinGale » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:08 am

Taylor_Racing wrote:Thanks for the advice! What would you suggest for a ride height and gear ratios? There are currently two forward speeds and we are leaning towards a four speed swap.


I'd suggest 3.5-4.0 inches of ride height. I run 3.5 and with soft springs I touch down occasionally (which is just what I want). Some people have run less than 3" without problems but it depends a lot on the car and the suspension. Even the pits can be hazardous since we are not talking about paved places meant for race cars. I actually broke a fitting on my dry sump pump in the campground at Burke with 3.5" so I really don't dare go any lower.

I've run various toe settings. A 1/16" of an inch of toe out is what I'm currently running.

Weight distribution is often seen as a problem. Stock cars are normally designed and built to have more left side weight. Ultimately you may want to more stuff around to try to get closer to 50-50 side to side but don't worry much about it. I'm still about 5% heavy on the left side in my Troyer and it's not a problem. You will want to scale the car however and adjust things until the cross weights (left front + right rear and right front + left rear) are very close to equal. But that can of course be done without moving anything.

The transmission depends on a few factors. I have a 4 speed but I'm kind of infamous for not using many of the gears. I can run Ascutney, and Philo in one gear once I leave the line. Okemo needs two gears because of the high speed on the straight and Burke has the same problem just barely. I could run almost as fast at Burke with one gear. However to do this lack of shifting I'm relying on a motor that generates 400 ft/lbs of torque at not much over 2000 rpm. So I've got the low end power to pull it. With the old motor I ran I usually wanted three gears at most hills after I left the line.

So with a light car a strong motor and probably a quick change rear end to adjust the final ratio you could probably run with a two speed but looking for a four speed is probably a better bet. On the other hand if money was tight I'd probably put the money elsewhere and run the two speed. Upgrading the transmission later is an easy project when time and money allows. Besides when your times don't set the world on fire you can blame the transmission. :lol:

Can't really make any recommendations on springs without knowing more but from past experience starting at half of whatever the car came with is probably closer to what you want that what you have now. :D Which is just an observation that asphalt stock cars are often very stiff.
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Re: From oval track to Hill climbing

Postby KevinGale » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:10 am

I see you also asked about gear ratios. Of course that also depends of various factors. How about instead I talk about the range of speeds. If you are going good the average speed on the hill is around 60 mph. A 30 to 90 Mph range covers most of the ground on the most of the hills. I can run from about 30-107 in third gear with the 3.92 rear gears I normally run and as I said before that is enough all by itself for Philo and Ascutney. Okemo needs a higher gear for the straight where I can just hit 120. Burke is harder. I can hit more than 107 going into check one but it also has a really tight turn 14 that needs a low gear. Sometimes I use three gears and sometimes I change the rear end gear to a 4.42 and run third and forth.

I still launch the car in 1st with the 3.92 rear gears but I use second when I put in the 4.42 since I think I can pull out stumps in first. With only two gears you will likely give up a little time off the line but probably not much. I often wonder if I would be better off launching in a higher gear. But when it occasionally does hook up I just love the way it pushes me back into the seat!
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Re: From oval track to Hill climbing

Postby Challenger392 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:16 pm

As far as ride height goes I run on the higher side (5"), this is mostly due to my higher center of gravity (Wet sump vs kevins Dry sump). I seem to touch down a few times on a couple of the hills. My suspension is also VERY VERY soft. And I currently run without a sway bar. I could probably drop the ride height some if I used one. Also in contrast to Kevins car I use ALL my gears as my power only comes in the higher RPM ranges. I will be running 4.11 gears this year which will hopefully aleviate some of the shifting I had to do last year with 4.56's. So it will really depend on what your powerband looks like. My max speed on 4th last year was 107 which was plenty. Also I (and probably most people here) would recomend changing out the locked rearend. It makes it dificult in the tighter turn especially when traction isn't optimal. I had 2 crashes this past year in which my spool played a large roll. I will be running a completely open diff until I can aquire a locker. I look forward to seeing you and your car at the hills
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Re: From oval track to Hill climbing

Postby Taylor_Racing » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:04 pm

The car is finally ready and should nothing go wrong we will be in attendance this weekend at Okemo. The last piece of the puzzle seems to be tires; is tread required? We initially intended to run slicks. Also we are a bit unsure on the actually classification of the car for the registration form.
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Re: From oval track to Hill climbing

Postby walterclark » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:21 pm

You will likely be in P1. In any of the P classes, tire are unrestricted so long as they dont show cords or dry cracking.
The older I get the better I was.
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