New wire sources and specs

[Mopar 151w2]

My Google is FUBAR, but ask.com came through for me. There seem to be 2 basic types we are interested in:

Found it here : http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=205982

WD1 field phone wire for sale
by jelloboy » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:54 am
I have several NOS in the box rolls of field phone wire on DR-8 reels.1/2 kilometer length 40.00 plus shipping.

Another source:https://www.fairradio.com/catalog.php?m ... oryid=8398

WD-1A-2640 Field Telephone Wire WD-1A/TT twin lead vinyl-covered wire. Intended for use with EE-8, TA-43, TA-312 and similar field phones. 1/2 mile of wire on a wood spool, 24 lbs sh. Drop shipped from New York. Unused,
Quantity Price
1 or more $265.95 each

[walterclark]

Its a good idea to create a topic for this. One clarification needed though. This is specifically for the KSCC wire. I think SCCNH and SCCV are all set for now.

The 2 above cables take the "wire" in the direction of the SCCNH comm wire - this is very stiff wire that is also very tough. I will require somewhat different care to lay and retrieve than the very compliant wire we use now, but unlike a lot of all copper cables, that are also stiff, if handled correctly, this stuff should lay flat and not fatigue quickly with our repeated use. It has much greater tensile strength than the flexible stuff, so issues like hanging across the road, if needed, would only require some proper strain relief one both ends and not require support along the suspended length.

A downloadable PDF of WD-1 can be obtained here: http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL- ... 94C_12128/

A web browser viewable PDF of the mil spec for the 1A wire can be seen here: http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSp ... l49104.pdf

Dimensionally these both are larger than we have now, so probably would require a larger spool. The splice and repair technique for this type wire is more involved and expensive. The AC performance above 4KHz is not specified as that was never an intended use but it can be assumed the terminal impedance is the same as all other closely spaced twin conductors - between 100 and 300 ohms. The insulation material is Nylon in the WD-1 and HDPE in the WD-1A. The HDPE would be the more favorable material from a dielectric perspective except it can assumed that both have been UV stabilized, probably with carbon black, which increases dielectric absorption, degrading high frequency transmission - e.g. we can probably forget modulating data at a high frequency onto the wire. They both spec that the Nylon or HDPE is UV stabilized so they should have similar useful lives outdoors. All this wire has probably gone past its shelf life so its condition now is going to depend a lot on how it was stored over the years. Fresh out of some military warehouse, is a good thing. Kicking around in someones drafty barn or back yard for 2 decades is not.

Current condition of the insulation is probably the most important parameter to us if we were to go this way. This suggests to me that it cannot safely be purchased site unseen.

[BugEyeRex]

Nick and I are working on fixing and evaluating the Philo wire. So far we are up to check 3. Are all the clubs wire steel or copper?

[walterclark]

KSCC's wire is currently copper. SCCNH is either steel or steel/copper like the WD-1 above.

[KevinGale]

These look like they have multiple strands? We only need two for phones. One dream for a long time is extra strands for data. We could then send things like car numbers, split times, etc up and down the wire. Basically we make a hill network.

One other thing we can do with this type of setup in the future is increase safety. If we can just attach split time sensors to the wire and have them send data you can actually write software to detect that cars are getting too close together or that a car has gone missing. Then you can warn control and/or finish. Imagine control having a screen that basically shows where the cars are on the hill.

Not to mention that instead of a couple split times you would get several of them or more.

[Mopar 151w2]

The SCCV wire is the old KSCC wire - IIRC, the majority of it is steel/copper twisted pair. At one time, the top 1/2 mile or so was tinned copper coaxial - which laid out slick as you please, but required a clue or 2 to splice/repair - we had a couple helpful souls who thought it was single -conductor!

I beleive that the SCCNH wire is the WW-1 style pictured - I recall that it is shedding the nylon "overcoat" in a few spots.

The current KSCC wire is, in fact, the core of relatively cheap cord (like 16/2 SJ). it used to have the f'n string in it, too (taking the string out wierded out a couple of my neighbors....) - which led to "interesting" problems when it got wet, as the string was taped in with some of the splices.. It was never intended to be exposed to lots of sunlight, or last as long as it has. Someone "liberated" it for us out of a cord factory.

[Mopar 151w2]

in reply to Kevin - those are individual strands within the conductor. It's 2 conductor wire.

[sdwarf36]

Heavier? Less flexible-and harder to repair? Geez--better make sure we thank Bill Hudson at every opportunity.

[walterclark]

Multiple pairs of conductors raises the complexity bar a bit. As much as I like the idea, I am not sure it is practical.

Off the top of my head... The pairs would need to be shielded from one another to keep data crosstalk from interfering with the analog voice comm. Installing drops and making repairs becomes a much bigger deal, both in time and skill required, not made any easier by the fact that on the mountain it is usually accompanied by biting insects, rain or both.

Before I go on, I want to point out that I want to spend less time up on the mountain messing with a wire, not more. The wire really needs someone who has it their focus during an event and in the off season. That person is not me.

I found one surplus cable that might do the job of separate voice and data. It is a Belden 88723-002. Spec here: http://www.belden.com/techdatas/english/88723.pdf A source here in 1000' rolls: http://www.surplussales.com/wire-cable/Wire2.html This is the plenum rated version of 8723. Plenum rated cables tends to be stiffer and carry higher pull and temperature ratings. In this case the pull rating is only 10% greater in the plenum version, but the surplus product is a lot less expensive than the market price for new 8723. I think either might be a challenge to deploy and reel in without damaging the cable.

[walterclark]

The current KSCC wire is, in fact, the core of relatively cheap cord (like 16/2 SJ).

Its 18ga. I have a bit of it in my repair box...for those times when a car just makes too much of a mess of it to be repaired.