Where are the REAL RACING suspension companies

Where are the REAL RACING suspension companies

Postby Rabbit Farmer » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:06 am

I am trying to figure out a new suspension for the Golf as it is a bit tired (and bent).

Thinking that a full threaded body Bilstein struck would be great. Something similar to the Bilstein Sports that I am running now, but thinking adjustable is the way to go.
Example here: http://cart.bilsteinus.com/product/48-080651/90346/FWD

I would then retain my current 2.5 ID 500# main spring (unsure of the length.... 8"?) and add a 3" long (or so) 200# tender to the equation.

Finding the spring is easy enough as I can hook up with an H&R spring dealer for the tender along with the upper perch to marry up to the new camber plates and the "Inside Coil Over Locating Rings" (keeps the main and tender springs inline and behaving)

Essentially, I would end up with something that LOOKS like this, but I need to understand the performance of the strut/shock as it compares to what I have and control over the spring rate AND be able to purchase the parts separately (or at least having control over the springs):
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Gol ... rs/ES1939/
http://cart.bilsteinus.com/product/48-080651/90346/FWD

So... my issue is that I keep trying to research sites and either they are all about "stance and lowering" and not about performance or there is not real info about the strut or springs (if looking at the full coilover setup).

Anyone have any good leads?

Thanks

Steve
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Where are the REAL RACING suspension companies

Postby Mopar 151w2 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:15 am

Sad to say, you may have found them.... Thing is, at some point in this journey, you need a fair amount of understanding/ownership over your spring/shock/bar/assist-packer-air stop thingy selection, or you end up at the mercy of the catalog-writin' "experts", aka "saleslizards".
Bilstein may have an independent distributor, or in-house wizard, who specalises in strut suspension cars. I'd reccomend a chassis seminar, but Duke Southard is long gone, and most of the seminars are done by regional oval track specialists - finding any for strut cars will be difficult. Or you could talk to Bill.... who really understands all this stuff, if you can keep up with whereever his mind may wander.
Mopar 151w2
 
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Where are the REAL RACING suspension companies

Postby sachilles » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:54 am

I can give you a name, but they are spendy.
Sachilles
02 Subaru impreza (Donut) #66
User avatar
sachilles
 
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:11 pm
Location: Waitsfield, VT

Re: Where are the REAL RACING suspension companies

Postby walterclark » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:45 am

My experience getting into this was with Dick Shine and SRS but Dick seems to have gone fishing and crickets are the only thing moving around at SRS these days.

Anyway he sold me his Blistein coilover setup. It consists of what used to be called the group B struts (a full length non-adjustable strut or shock including the stock lower perches, with a seemingly wide spring rate compatibility), a set of custom threaded sleeves, adjustable lower perches, upper perches and a set of 2.5" springs. To use them the front strut lower perches had to be cut off, then in Dick's solution the sleeve slid over the body and settled on the remains of the old perch. The rear shock always had a slide-on lower perch so no heroics was needed to switch over.

The only complaint I have is that with his road racing experience on what amount to billiard table smooth roads he prescribed what he thinks of as gravel springs that turned out to be too stiff even for our roads paved (these days). While rallying the car I went much softer and some longer until I found rates that worked. When I switched to hillclimbs I started out using the original springs he sold me (300F 200R BTW) but found, especially at Ascutney they were way too stiff in the rough parts. I moved to the intermediate rates, 250/175, and that was much better in terms of keeping the car from dancing about in the rough stuff. Maybe a little softer than needed elsewhere but I didnt see a decrease in my ability to drive. However with the car lower than stock and with the softer springs I was bottoming out the front struts (the rear shocks were fine) and that did upset the car, not to mention what it might end up doing to the suspension mounts. So last year (or was it in '12...) I switched to the Bilstein "Group A" front strut. It is a good 4" shorter than stock and comes with a threaded body and lower perch. Maybe a 2-3" shorter would have been better as I have very little droop now so its possible to pick up an inside front tire in turns. Otherwise that was the ticket to dealing with the rough part of Ascutney. The Group A version seems to have the same wide spring compatible range as the Group B strut. These seem to find favor with A2 racers that run as high as 600# front springs.

You may not be able to buy these or something similar for your car these days because Bilstein seems to have shifted its focus elsewhere, but if still around they are good. Also Bilstein can repair or rebuild them for about $60 a pop (race shocks dont have that lifetime warranty thing going). The point is:

1. The Bilsteins that are made for racing are quite good and handle a wide range of spring rates (which for most of us is probably better than field mis-adjustable struts and shocks). I have no clue as to whether all this goodness has any relationship to the coilover kits Bilstein promotes these days. Those are all aimed at the tuner crowd, where as you found out "Stance" is number 1 and suitability for hillclimbs is hard to figure. They do carry a "sport" line in most struts which appear to be slightly shorter and with firmer that OEM valving and that might be a good starting place. Then to find a coilover sleeve set and perches that work...

2. Full on road racing suspensions will probably not work because of the very high spring rates they tend to use. Something a little firmer than what works in rally on gravel, or perhaps on pavement in rain might be the best target. A rally setup (or even stock length) might not work because of the normal set height of most of those is going to be higher than you want and you might find yourself bottoming out the struts in the rough when lower than stock. I think Rutan dealt with this by raising the top of the front strut towers on his "German Buick" (a lot).
The older I get the better I was.
User avatar
walterclark
 
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Dover, MA.

Re: Where are the REAL RACING suspension companies

Postby Rabbit Farmer » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:24 am

Walter... sounds like I currently have the same setup as you. SRS coilover kit with lower perch removed to receive the threaded sleeve.

The Golf now has raised strut towers, hence the bigger reason for wanting to use some tenders.

Seth... got your PM. Thx.
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Where are the REAL RACING suspension companies

Postby Rabbit Farmer » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:07 pm

One last part....

upper spring perch for 2.5" ID coilover spring, Bilstein Sport strut (36mm)..... unsure exactly the size of the surface that mates with the spherical bearing, but I do know that the threaded part of the strut that goes thru the bearing is 14mm.

Thoughts on where to get it?

Everyone has a kit for someone, but not just the parts.

Steve
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Where are the REAL RACING suspension companies

Postby walterclark » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:00 am

These look pretty close:
Image

http://www.paragon-products.com/Racers-Edge-2-5-Upper-Spring-Perch-Coil-Over-p/mc-7510.htm

You might want to call them to be sure the bore is large enough for your struts.
The older I get the better I was.
User avatar
walterclark
 
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Dover, MA.

Re: Where are the REAL RACING suspension companies

Postby Rabbit Farmer » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:19 pm

Thanks Walter. I will give them a call.

Also on my list is https://www.vorshlag.com

I know the shaft on the Bilstein is 14mm.

Steve
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Where are the REAL RACING suspension companies

Postby sciroccohp » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:58 pm

Real racing would be Moton's, JRZ or the like, mine are modified porsche units that were revalved to the weight/front drive by a Joe Stimola of SRP engineering in NY. With the help of Peter Dawe's from Dawe's Motorsport in PA. The shocks were about 1500 a piece without the modifications to make them fit VW. But with the internal nitrogen to change the spring rate and the ability to tune the rebound, high and low speed compression allows me to run 500-600 lbs springs when with regular bilsteins the car hopped sideways.
sciroccohp
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:49 pm
Location: New Haven, CT


Return to Suspension

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

x