Gas what ain't Passin'

Gas what ain't Passin'

Postby Mopar 151 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:56 am

Gas what ain't Passin' :ugeek: Since ethanol replaced MTBE as the oxygenating agent in our RFG (street gas), it has caused trouble for anything that is not used daily, particularly if the thing is question is sensitive to octane, a/f ratio, or water.
This websitehttp://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/100/136/lang,en/has a good explanation of "phase seperation", and the snake oil they're sellin' claims to take care of all this. needs further evaluation, could be good stuff. 8-)
John and Michelle Reed
KSCC Life Member
NEHA # 151
User avatar
Mopar 151
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:03 am

Re: Gas what ain't Passin'

Postby walterclark » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:26 am

Similar posting from someone not promoting a specific product. http://fuelschool.blogspot.com/2009/02/phase-separation-in-ethanol-blended.html. Then this memo posted on the epa web site: http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf. It always makes me suspicious of the "science" when someone, a company (or a company pretending to be just a scientist) offers a solution and the "science" to a problem I didnt know I had. I look for corroborating or debunking evidence. Virtually everything I have found seems to corroborate the claim of a problem.

FWIW. I heard something of this about 2-3 years ago from the NE Sunoco race gas dealer at a rally. nothing specific, just that ethanol bearing "pump gas" degraded fast and should be used within about a month of production. Then I read about it online abut a year ago.

I know others sell "solutions" including Eastwood. What I dont know if if any of them can really prevent phase separation. Articles by independent authors (like one in Popular Mechanics) do suggest fuel stabilizers be used if a system cannot be drained for storage, but they caution against assuming a product claiming to prevent phase separation will actually work. I have not found any online independent testing of Eastwood, Star tron and Sta-Bil products (that claim to prevent this) so am not counting on it and I am doing these things instead. I buy gas from high volume name brand stations so I have some assurance the fuel is good quality and fresh. I drain where I can for storage. When I cannot, I try to put fresh fuel and stabilizer in the tank and fill the tank full to help reduce water accumulation. I use Amsoil synthetic 2-cycle oil during the season in all my yard power tools and drain them when last used in the fall. I also try to only have on hand as much mixed oil-gas as I can use in a couple weeks. The one place where none of these works well for me is with the GTI. I dont want to fill the tank with what will end up being "old" fuel, and I dont want to completely drain it because I need to be able to start and move it periodically. So I do use the stabilizer in the 5 gallons or less of fuel in the tank. Before starting it I run a pint or so of fuel from the fuel sample test port to see that it appears normal. I risk clogging the fuel filter doing this but the test port is before the fuel distributor so I wouldnt be pumping sludge into the critical part of the system.

Edit: Thinking about this this morning I decided to get some water detecting paste http://www.gasoila.com/images/pdf/AP02%20Instructions.pdf. MSC and Amazon sell it. This variety is made for Ethanol blended fuels. The GTI tank is easily accessible thru the rear hatch and this may be faster and more accurate than my current observation method.
Last edited by walterclark on Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
The older I get the better I was.
User avatar
walterclark
 
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Dover, MA.

Re: Gas what ain't Passin'

Postby sachilles » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:02 am

I was talking to a friend that does an awful lot of work on chain saws. According to him, ethanol has been causing problem with many folks with small engines that only get occasional use.
Sachilles
02 Subaru impreza (Donut) #66
User avatar
sachilles
 
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:11 pm
Location: Waitsfield, VT

Re: Gas what ain't Passin'

Postby Rabbit Farmer » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:08 pm

Does the fact that small engines generally required gas:oil mix play into this?
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Gas what ain't Passin'

Postby walterclark » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:42 pm

Rabbit Farmer wrote:Does the fact that small engines generally required gas:oil mix play into this?


Well, gas:oil mix engines have always had a strike against them to begin with. Conventional 2-stroke oils tend to not remain mixed well with fuel and can both settle out of the mix and oxidize, contributing to new impurities in the mix. Synthetic oils made for 2-strokes have pretty much eliminated this problem in both my experience and according to many fellow Amsoil dealer anecdotes. Next, ethanol tends to get between 2-cycle oil and internal surfaces of an engine (carbs, cylinders, etc.) where normally an oil-surface bond would occur leading to a loss of surface lubrication during operation and rust prevention when stored. Synthetic 2-cycle oils can be formulated to prevent this, which Amsoil oils are. Some 2-cycle synthetics are also more hygroscopic than others. This would seem to be good - with their ability to absorb some moisture form the fuel if using gas:oil pre-mixed - but this degrades the oils ability to protect surfaces in storage. Amsoil makes 2 types of 2-cycle oils in this regard. Their racing 2-cycle oils are more hygroscopic but that is a side effect of the desire to have these oils burn extra cleanly, and are recommended for use on direct-oil-injection race vehicles, not occasional use vehicles and tools and not pre-mixed engines. The Amsoil that is recommended for general-to-performance use is much less hygroscopic. So the oil is probably not going to affect the phase change problem much.
The older I get the better I was.
User avatar
walterclark
 
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Dover, MA.

Re: Gas what ain't Passin'

Postby sdwarf36 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:16 pm

http://www.seffuels.com/

we've sold a bit of this stuff at work .
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
User avatar
sdwarf36
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:06 pm

Re: Gas what ain't Passin'

Postby walterclark » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:04 pm

SEF is about $16/gallon in quart containers. One could just get a gallon of Sunoco 100 and mix it with a good synthetic 2-cycle...for about $10/gal.
The older I get the better I was.
User avatar
walterclark
 
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Dover, MA.


Return to Engine/Performance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

x