2015 rules proposal #2

2015 rules proposal #2

Postby Kiwi » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:23 pm

1) Technical and Safety

2) Jamie Melhuish

3) 4.E.11.

4) Delete the sentence “Cockpit to be entirely contained within the wheelbase.

5) This completely outlaws almost all mid-engined tube frame formula cars and sports racers. Most formula cars and sports racers (e.g., Formula Vee, Formula Ford, Formula 5000, DSR and CSR sports racers, and Jamie’s Toyota WSR) have a cockpit that extends past the front axle line, yet other sanctioning bodies deem them safe enough to race.
I seem to remember the discussion revolving around go-karts. If we wish to disallow go-karts, even ones with adequate front energy absorbing features, then better to explicitly state that, or to institute a minimum wheelbase rule, say minimum 60 inches (which would allow Formula SAE cars, but prevent go-karts).

    BMC Austin Mini (original): wheelbase 2,036 mm (80.2 in) (saloon)
    Fiat 500 (original): wheelbase 1.84 m (72.4 in)
    Formula SAE: wheelbase 61” – 67” approx., minimum 60”
    250cc Superkart chassis dimensions: The wheelbase must be at least 1000mm (39.4”) and not more than 1270mm (50”).
    125cc Shifter kart: wheelbase: 1044mm (41”)
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Re: 2015 rules proposal #2

Postby sdwarf36 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:56 pm

Me: 73"ish. (For reference)
I'll now go back to looking for a 'glass Fiat 500 body...hmmmm 8-)
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
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Re: 2015 rules proposal #2

Postby britracer89 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:00 am

If I recall correctly, the intent of the rule was to eliminate some (or maybe many) of the more historic formula and sports racers where the driver’s feet are ahead of the front axle center line with little more than 1/32” sheet metal for protection.

FYI: the FVee cockpit is within the wheelbase of the car. The FVee front axle bolts to the forward end of the cock-pit. The driver’s feet are located rear of the axle centerline.

I do not know how the Toyota WSR is set up. I believe some Formula Fords the driver’s feet are forward of axle center line and some are behind axle centerline. I don’t remember how Bob D’Amore’s F5000 was set up.

I would be interested in knowing if there are modern racers with driver and/or cockpit ahead of the front axle centerline? And if so, what front impact protection is incorporated into the chassis.
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Re: 2015 rules proposal #2

Postby Kiwi » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:52 am

If I recall correctly, the intent of the rule was to eliminate some (or maybe many) of the more historic formula and sports racers where the driver’s feet are ahead of the front axle center line with little more than 1/32” sheet metal for protection.


That case would already be covered by our rules, first sentence of rule 4.E.11.
"Energy absorbing features must be incorporated into the chassis structure ahead of the driver’s feet, and to the side of the driver."

If somebody wants to run a historic formula car or sports racer, I have no problem, as long as it has adequate front and side impact protection.

Regarding Formula Vees, I have found instances of pedals being behind the front axle centerline, but also ahead of the front axle. In almost all cases though, the "cockpit" (which I define as the enclosure the driver sits inside) extends ahead of the front axle, i.e., exceeds the wheelbase, therefore violating this rule.

Likewise for almost all other tube frame mid/rear engined race cars, the cockpit tends to extend to the front-most suspension mounting point, and the axle centerline always lies behind that, violating the current rule. Whether your feet actually extend to the end of the cockpit depends on how the pedals are set up. Mine adjust, and a tall person would have their feet in front of the axle (mine are behind). Again, our rule says nothing about "feet", only about the cockpit location.
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Re: 2015 rules proposal #2

Postby britracer89 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:39 am

Ok. Based on your remarks and a very brief session with Google I think your proposal has merit.
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Re: 2015 rules proposal #2

Postby KevinGale » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:01 pm

I concur with Brian's memory. The issue as I recall was the drivers feet being the front most thing with virtually no protection. Having hit head on into trees twice HARD I can attest that having protection there is a very good idea.

But the wording about being within the wheelbase may predate changes that talk about Energy absorbing features ahead of drivers feet. It is probably worth talking about. I'll probably mostly recuse myself from the discussion since I haven't yet seem a formula style car that I would have wanted to be sitting in when I took either front impact into a tree. I'm biased.
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Re: 2015 rules proposal #2

Postby Super1303 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:41 pm

sdwarf36 wrote:Me: 73"ish. (For reference)
I'll now go back to looking for a 'glass Fiat 500 body...hmmmm 8-)


It's off topic and late but that would be freakin cool.
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