2010 - Fire extinguisher rule clarification

Re: 2010 - Fire extinguisher rule clarification

Postby sciroccohp » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:21 am

Mopar 151 wrote:Simple solution @ home cheapo - $5.97
Image
It's a Kidde 420118, for refrence purposes 8-)
And this little darlin', a Kidde FA110, is a 1A10BC rated, meets the DOT pressure vessel rating, and retails for the princely sum of $16.97 :ugeek: Image

This is what I have but I am not a fan of a 3 lb. pressurized projectile in my car, which I think is Walters point. So I was wondering if we just make one of the ones I suggested (or something like it) mandatory to remove the concern. I can say that when I initially read the rules I thought my halon system would be adequate, luckily I asked the question on the NEHA mailing list and got the right equipment installed before I got to my first race but I can see the confusion the way the rule is written now.
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Re: 2010 - Fire extinguisher rule clarification

Postby Mopar 151 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:18 pm

I posted these because they were literally the parts the current rule is written around. I have used the same bracket since 1980 or so, through several crashes, without failure. But - it is mounted per our rule, so that the catch is not stressed directly in a frontal impact.
The ruld was written because of Woody Vachs's crash at Okemo, when the extuinguisher missled through the windshield :evil: - the all-plastic bracket had the catch to the front, and the band snapped at impact.

What I would question with the "fancy" brackets shown, or the ones I found, is that many of them are not really "quick release", particularly when the operator is using gloves.
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Re: 2010 - Fire extinguisher rule clarification

Postby Pascal » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:19 pm

that looks like the exact bracket Ive got in my car, (I did like the $5 price tag when I bought it). It held the extinguisher in place during an impact from the side. Before I mount it in the new car, which way would you recommend mounting? with the nozzle towards the front or rear of the car?

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Re: 2010 - Fire extinguisher rule clarification

Postby walterclark » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:57 pm

Mopar 151 wrote:What I would question with the "fancy" brackets shown, or the ones I found, is that many of them are not really "quick release", particularly when the operator is using gloves.


I generally wear "Mechanix" gloves when scrutineering cars and I have encountered at least 2 of the style sold by Pit Stop. I had no trouble at all pulling the pin and removing the extinguisher for inspection. The ring is large and there is a cable if a really large finger wont fit in the ring. In fact getting it out took less effort than removing one from a strap retainer, especially those where things like small tie-wraps or duck tape have been used to try to keep the buckle closed. Re-mounting it however took a little more effort.

To Johns's point probably the best way to orient the bracket in a car is so that the long part of the bracket absorbs the momentum of the extinguisher bottle in a frontal impact. The ideal would have the bottle upright and facing the rear of the car. Other orientations could be the subject of a lot of opinion and the best alternate is probably going to depend on the bracket itself. Everything else is going to put stress on the strap/buckle, the piece that retains the neck of the bottle or both to some degree in a frontal. The worst would probably be having the bottle inverted and facing the front.

Probably 70% of the hand held extinguishers in rally cars use the USCG strap mounts and are mounted to the floor in front of the co-drivers seat with the bottle length side-to-side in the car. Handy to be sure, but from what I can remember all of the ones that came out were mounted this way. Is that related to the mounting orientation or just because most of them are installed this way? I dont know. The other 30% are on-board systems or a second hand-held mounted elsewhere
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Re: 2010 - Fire extinguisher rule clarification

Postby KevinGale » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:17 am

For what it is worth (not a lot since we are talking a sample of two) I've see the kiddie mount John shows above hold up just fine through two very hard impacts. Karen hit a tree in the old car and I then hit a tree at Ascutney in the new car. I'm still using the same bracket. The extinguisher never came out and the bracket is fine. In the first case the car was destroyed and the second it needed a new front clip. Both were 50-70mph impacts into trees which is a really hard hit.
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Re: 2010 - Fire extinguisher rule clarification

Postby walterclark » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:25 pm

Just to be clear. The proposal I started with will permit this extinguisher and bracket as shown because it is 2.5 pounds net. My proposal is for those OVER 2.5 pounds net (which in most cases is a jump to 4-5 pounds net). Personally I would double strap it anyway. Cheap insurance. And competitors are free to go beyond the minimum requirements.
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Re: 2010 - Fire extinguisher rule clarification

Postby KevinGale » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:48 pm

walterclark wrote:Just to be clear. The proposal I started with will permit this extinguisher and bracket as shown because it is 2.5 pounds net. My proposal is for those OVER 2.5 pounds net (which in most cases is a jump to 4-5 pounds net). Personally I would double strap it anyway. Cheap insurance. And competitors are free to go beyond the minimum requirements.


Ok, that works for me.
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