Car eligible for SP?

Discussion related to classification of cars in the NEHA series.

Re: Car eligible for SP?

Postby walterclark » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:35 am

Mopar 151 wrote: Does that Halon have any type A (combustibles) rating? A lot of extinguishers are only rated BC (liquid fuel, electrical), but we require an ABC rating (1A10BC) - because we run in the woods, and we care more for the woods than your car :roll: .


John, This is an interesting point you brought out. I know we preach the "A" rating on extinguishers for the every reason you state. However we also specifically permit a 1.25 lb net Halon (1211) or equivalent. Halon is largely no longer available but the primary alternative, Halotron 1, does not get any A class rating until the extinguisher is a net 11 lb unit and then it is 1-A, 10-BC. And from what I can find about Halon 1211 it did not get any class A rating until the net is in the 9-17 lb range.

This begs the question. How did the 1.25 lb Halon or equivalent become acceptable in our rules? It appears as far back as 2004, probably further, but that is as far back as is available on our web site.
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Re: Car eligible for SP?

Postby Mopar 151 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:57 pm

IIRC, it goes back at least 20 years, maybe as far as the "recodification" of the rules c. 1980 ( no one could find a copy of the actual rules, so we built 'em back up from an old 3rd gen photocopied tech sheet - that's part of why they are in outline format) Jimmy Hale, Dave Patten, and I were the culprits! :lol:

Brings up another issue, kind of - Is the 5 lb Halon system "Froggy" is talking about an onboard system? We used to accept onboard in lieu of a handheld XT - did we change the rule to our current practice of requiring a handheld with an onboard, or did we just kinda tell everybody?
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Re: Car eligible for SP?

Postby RacingFrog » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:38 pm

Mopar 151 wrote:Make sure your belts are in date! ;) Cover the battery + terminal - an asprin bottle works :geek: , or the speed shop has nice ones cheap.Some older 'Vette's run the battery cable and the fuel line through the frame :evil: - we DO NOT :shock: allow either one to run through structure. We are a little persnickety about extinguisher brackets, too, especially for the 5# ones - you may have to modify one a bit (add another band clamp) to keep the boys in Tech happy. Does that Halon have any type A (combustibles) rating? A lot of extinguishers are only rated BC (liquid fuel, electrical), but we require an ABC rating (1A10BC) - because we run in the woods, and we care more for the woods than your car :roll: .


For the belts, I still have the factory 3 point belts so that the car can still pass inspection. So I guess it does not matter if the harness has expired or not, correct?
For the fuel line, it is just the stock stuff, so wherever it was in the first place, it is still there.
For the battery, it has been relocated in the back with the cut-off switch on the dashboard. I guess the cables are running under the frame but I'll double check.

For the fire extinguisher, it is Halotron and it is only BC. So I guess that won't work. If I really put the woods on fire, not sure I'll do much even with an A rated extinguisher!

Thanks for pointing out all the points!
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Re: Car eligible for SP?

Postby walterclark » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:50 pm

The rule specifically requires the hand held, even with an onboard.

Good info about the history. I talked with Don T and he didnt know why the Halon was included if class A capability is so important - seems it preceded his involvement in rule making.

However Don did say he felt the importance of everyone carrying a class ABC versus a BC (putting out fires in the woods that might start with a car going off) has decreased over time. In particular since we started using Speedway who comes with a suitable vehicle to get up and down the mountain quickly and is well equipped to put out a fire. He doesnt think it is worth trying to change the rules regarding this, just to continue to accept either type we accept now (ABC or Halon) and give the drivers the choice (either or both).

Hmmm. Since dry chem is very hard on mechanical and electrical bits if not washed off quickly, I am starting to think about going to Halotron myself...
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Re: Car eligible for SP?

Postby Rabbit Farmer » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:20 pm

Not related to the overall topic, but related to the history part. This is the reason that have have retained all the rules since taking over the website. I see value in tracking the rules over the years to have a better understand why we do/did things. End of historical comments
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Re: Car eligible for SP?

Postby walterclark » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:52 pm

RacingFrog wrote:For the belts, I still have the factory 3 point belts so that the car can still pass inspection. So I guess it does not matter if the harness has expired or not, correct?
For the fuel line, it is just the stock stuff, so wherever it was in the first place, it is still there.
For the battery, it has been relocated in the back with the cut-off switch on the dashboard. I guess the cables are running under the frame but I'll double check.

For the fire extinguisher, it is Halotron and it is only BC. So I guess that won't work. If I really put the woods on fire, not sure I'll do much even with an A rated extinguisher!

Thanks for pointing out all the points!


The DOT belts will be fine until you need a cage then the FIA/SFI belts come into play. 5 years for FIA (December of year on belt) and 3 years (our rule not the SFI rule which is 2 years) from manufacture on SFI belts. Belts with both certs can use the FIA date.

Your Halotron is fine.

FYI: John (Mopar 151) is on the rules committee and I do tech with Don Taylor at events. Our rules are actually written and modified by the members (annually). John's (and others on the rules committee) job is to interpret them if there is a question and Don and I ensure compliance at events.
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Re: Car eligible for SP?

Postby KevinGale » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:04 pm

walterclark wrote:Hmmm. Since dry chem is very hard on mechanical and electrical bits if not washed off quickly, I am starting to think about going to Halotron myself...


Also a way to take a small bit of weight out of the car. Hmmm that is tempting.
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Re: Car eligible for SP?

Postby RacingFrog » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:09 am

walterclark wrote:The DOT belts will be fine until you need a cage then the FIA/SFI belts come into play. 5 years for FIA (December of year on belt) and 3 years (our rule not the SFI rule which is 2 years) from manufacture on SFI belts. Belts with both certs can use the FIA date.

Your Halotron is fine.


So if I understand correctly, as long as I don't break out I am fine with the DOT belts and the 4 point roll bar (which should be ok for this year). And hopefully next year I can upgrade everything to set new records (in the American car driven by a French guy category)!

Any recommendation for best practices on where to hookup the fire extinguisher in the car?
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Re: Car eligible for SP?

Postby walterclark » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:33 am

RacingFrog wrote: Any recommendation for best practices on where to hookup the fire extinguisher in the car?


I was under the impression that the Halotron you mentioned is a portable so the term "hookup" confuses me as that sounds like what you would do with an on-board suppression system. Please clarify what sort of 5 lb. Halotron you are referring to...portable or installed. The reason I ask is that a portable extinguisher is required. Installed systems may also be in the car but they do not replace the portable requirement.
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Re: Car eligible for SP?

Postby Mopar 151 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:45 pm

it is technically correct that the 3 point works above breakout = but you will be far safer and happier in the 5 of 6 point belts. Check the tags - you may be OK. And if rewebbing service or trade-in is available, you have time enough to do it now.
What the f%&^ am I talkin' about?
What is Impact's Restraint System Trade-In Program?
Impact will take your "other brand" restraints as a trade-in on a brand new set of Impact Racing 5-point Latch & Link or Rotary Cam Restraints at a special trade-in price. System features individual shoulder harness, lape belt with a single right side adjuster (pull-up or pull-down) and a single sub belt. All belt ends are wrap-around. Anchor hardware (bolt-in or clip-in) sold separately.

Can you recertify my old Impact restraints?
We do not "recertify" your restraint systems, but Impact's quality hardware and on-site manufacturing allow us to reweb your Impact! Restraint Systems at a substantial savings over buying a new set of belts. Service includes inspection, webbing replacement if necessary with a new/current SFI 16.1 certification tag. This service is only available for Impact! products, we will not work on other brands of belts.

** Please note: SFI Foundation will NOT allow 16.1 certification or recertification of Y-Type Shoulders
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