Rule clarification about Miatas

Discussion related to classification of cars in the NEHA series.
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KevinGale
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Re: Rule clarification about Miatas

Post by KevinGale »

Challenger392 wrote:I deinately see your point as formula cars are designed to be driven on a track with wide runoff areas and no trees to run into. I'd still feel safer in a car like a formula ford that had been modified for hill climb than blasting up a hill on a motorcycle. I guess it all comes down to what risks your willing to take. I'd be willing to bet that you could make a formula car like the one in the picture I posted as safe as a dwarf/legends racer with proper modifications (nerf bars, front crush structure, roll cage.) One safety advantage a small car like that has is its low mass. Take a smart car for example they have been crash tested and proven that light weight can prove a great advantage in crash resistance.

To each his own. Our rules certainly don't exclude such cars with some modifications. I don't want to drive one but I have no problem with someone else driving one. The rule we have was mostly about tree limbs and cables taking off a head in an open cockpit. Also our landing areas are not smooth or level and we would rather the driver's head wasn't the first thing to hit something.

You have a point about light weight other things being more or less equal. But with race cars the safety structure is always scaled down along with the weight so it tends to be a bit of a wash.
Last edited by KevinGale on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Challenger392
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Re: Rule clarification about Miatas

Post by Challenger392 »

I definately appreciate your concern, sometimes I need people to tell me im crazy. I have trouble finding my self preservation instinct at times.
Luke Moultroup
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KevinGale
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Re: Rule clarification about Miatas

Post by KevinGale »

Challenger392 wrote:I definately appreciate your concern, sometimes I need people to tell me im crazy. I have trouble finding my self preservation instinct at times.
Anyone who races has probably been told that at one time or another. My self preservation instinct is suspect as well. Crazy is entirely relative. There is always someone out there doing something that makes whatever you are doing look sane. :)
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sdwarf36
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Re: Rule clarification about Miatas

Post by sdwarf36 »

Challenger392 wrote:I deinately see your point as furmula cars are designed to be driven on a track with wide runoff areas and no trees to run into. I'd still feel safer in a car like a formula ford that had been modified for hill climb than blasting up a hill on a motorcycle. I guess it all comes down to what risks your willing to take. I'd be willing to bet that you could make a formula car like the one in the picture I posted as safe as a dwarf/legends racer with proper modifications (nerf bars, front crush structure, roll cage.) One safety advantage a small car like that has is its low mass. Take a smart car for example they have been crash tested and proven that light weight can prove a great advantage in crash resistance.
Ummm--no. A Dwarf is made to survive tumbling end over end-getting bashed into by other cars--and keep going. My car's "frame" is 1"x2" .125 wall. It has 4 crossmembers-the one under my seat is 2"X2". All the "cage" structure around me is 1 1/4' .090. The formula car looks like 1"--the same size as my nerfs.
Picture going into a tree completely sideways-your arms + shoulders stick out farther than the frame. And as Kevin said-what if those 1" tubes push in 4"? 8"? thats you ribcage.
It might be a good driving car-just not a good crashing car.
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
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Challenger392
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Re: Rule clarification about Miatas

Post by Challenger392 »

Ya it would take some doing to make it safe.....relatively.
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sachilles
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Re: Rule clarification about Miatas

Post by sachilles »

Nobody ever really plans to crash. Those trees and rocks just sort of jump out.
Many things to consider. Every other hillclimb, somebody sees a deer on course. Some closer than others.
Consider what happens when you flip, and happen to keep sliding on down a bank on your roof.
Have a look at the wrecked cars in the photos section, and understand that most of them weren't traveling all that fast by the time they hit the immovable object.

You will go off.
I'm not saying it to be a negative nancy. You will go off. You'll either have a fragile car that hits a twig and collapses the suspension ending your day....or you can have a car that you can launch into the trees, pull out and bang out some sheet metal and take another run.

If that is your dream to run that sort of car, everyone here will help and encourage you to make it reality. However, if you are looking at it because you think it might be a cost effective way to get you on the hill, I think we are politely suggesting that you might want to try something different. It is not to say that an open wheel winged warrior type isn't a good idea, it is, just better to start from scratch and build for the task of hillclimbing rather than road racing. By the time you retrofit the thing to be safe, you'll have added a fair amount of tube, adding weight and killing the advantage a car like that might offer.
If you want to go open wheel formula style, something like Todd Cooks car might be worth looking in to.
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Challenger392
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Re: Rule clarification about Miatas

Post by Challenger392 »

I'd love to have a car like that and I may someday build one, right now I don't have the space to build anything. But open wheel is definately my type of racing, well just have to see what I can find to help develop my driving skills. And leave the ludicrously fast cars for the future.
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KevinGale
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Re: Rule clarification about Miatas

Post by KevinGale »

Challenger392 wrote:But open wheel is definately my type of racing.
Modified wheels are pretty open. :D

Just to give you and idea what my crash looked like here is a picture. The frame rail that is bent back in the shape of a tree is 2" x 3' and the cross member that is destoyed was also 2" x 3". No sure idea how fast I was going when I hit the tree but I know was in third gear because second had already hit the rev limiter. It happened so fast I never touched the brakes.

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Chief Geek
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Re: Rule clarification about Miatas

Post by Chief Geek »

Kevin

What year did you do that? I'd heard about the suicidal tree, but never seen the results.

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Challenger392
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Re: Rule clarification about Miatas

Post by Challenger392 »

Ya I've been looking at a modified. I just need to figure out how I'm going to tow a large race car with my puny truck.
Luke Moultroup
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