2010 Season Rules Proposals

User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
Posts: 2260
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: Earth
Contact:

2010 Season Rules Proposals

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

2010 Season

It is that time of year again to think about changes that you would like to see in the NEHA series to improve our events.

If you know of someone that doesn't have email and/or web access, please contact us at the above e-mail address with their proposal or send an e-mail with their contact information and we will contact them via phone.

Deadline: Proposal are accepted up to 05-Feb-2010 (see date on mailing below)
On 08-Feb-2010, we will post a .PDF of all proposals to be heard at the NEHA Rules Meeting.

Final Rules Proposals File: HERE

Submission Process:
Three methods to submit a proposal; e-mail me at SCCVermont@aol.com, send me a private message, snail mail.

You can also snail mail your submissions (post marked by 29-Jan-2010) to:
SCCV
c/o 2010 NEHA Rules
PO Box 1414
Williston, Vermont 05495

(make sure to supply contact information so that I can confirm with you that your proposal as rec'd)

Submit one proposal per e-mail or PM using the following format. This is how the proposal will be read at the meeting:

1) Your name(s)
2) E-mail address for each name(s) associated with this specific proposal (so I know who to contact if I have questions)
3) Rule type (General Regulations, Classification, Technical Regulations)
4) Rule section letter or number
5) Your proposal exactly how you would like to see it written in the rules (may be a deletion)
6) Optional but helpful, please include a brief description of your thoughts behind your proposal.

Example:
1) Frankie Slowpokeski (TurtleRacing@aol.com)
2) General Regulations
3) 5. General / B. Fuel System / Section 3
4) Change "metal can" to "can made of old milk cartons"
5) My thinking on this matter is that blah blah blah.

--------------------------------------------

The proposals will be included below in oldest to newest order within each section. Feel free to have discussion in the appropriate forums (links below), but do not submit a proposal in those threads as I may not see it. You can have a "I was thinking about submitting the following..." discussion, but unless it is specifically submitted to me, I will not include it.

Classification (Link to forum)
Sherman Baumann (05-Feb-2010)

Classification:
Part 2-Unprepared+Street prepared:
Adjustments to the displacement for variations from the norm will be:

Add "diesel -25%"

Thoughts:
Gas + diesel engines are too dissimilar to compare by just displacement.

General (Link to forum)
Sample rule
None submitted.

Technical (Link to forum)
1) Walter Clark (updated 14-Jan-2010)
2) walterclark1@comcast.net
3) Technical and Safety Requirements
4) Section 4.B.
5) Proposed:

4. COCKPIT
.
B. Fire Extinguisher minimum requirements
1. Type. All vehicles must be equipped with at least one portable 2.5-lb net minimum A-B-C type, 1.25-lb net Halon or approved substitute. It must be fully charged and must have a gauge.
2. Portable installation. All portable extinguishers shall be securely mounted with latch(s) positioned to side or rear of the vehicle. Brackets secured to vehicle sheet metal may not be attached with blind rivets or sheet metal screws. Portable extinguishers must not be mounted directly behind the driver, or on the floor in the driver foot well if the car is equipped with suspended pedals. It should be mounted as low and as far forward as possible within reach of the driver. Additional extinguishers may be mounted beyond the driver’s immediate reach. No non-metal or elastic straps, latches, or brackets are permitted. Brackets for 2.5-lb net and smaller extinguishers may use a single latching metal strap to secure the extinguisher tank to the bracket. Extinguishers over 2.5-lb net must have at least one additional metal restraining feature that secures the tank of the extinguisher to the bracket, not including any bracket feature used to locate the control valve or neck of the tank to the bracket. The additional restraint(s) may consist of a second strap, a receiver on the bracket to secure the bottom of the tank, or a similar device and should still permit rapid removal of the extinguisher.
3. Onboard systems. An onboard fire system may be installed in addition to the portable, and is required in any car with a nitrous system. This system must be SFI 17.1 compliant and/or on the FIA Technical List #16.

Present wording:

4. COCKPIT
.
B. Fire Extinguisher
1. 2.5-lb minimum A-B-C type or 1.25-lb Halon or approved substitute; must
be fully charged; must have a gauge.
2. Shall be securely mounted with catch to side or rear. No plastic straps,
catches, or brackets. Must not be mounted behind the driver and should
be mounted as low and as far forward as possible. Should be mounted
within reach of the driver.
3. Onboard fire system may be used, and is required in any car with a nitrous
system. Must be SCCA approved. A hand held bottle is also required.


6) The existing rule regarding extinguishers does not clearly define the requirement for a portable extinguisher in all cars, and the need for secure brackets and mounting is inadequate leading to a number of new competitors with unsuitable equipment and installations being rejected by tech.

Further the statement regarding onboard extinguisher certification is based on the assumption that the SCCA requires and specifies onboard extinguishers in some universal way. The SCCA is neither consistent in requiring onboard systems nor in what is required across amateur and pro racing. It is better to simply point to the safety standards that are created and maintained for racing by the 2 major groups doing this, SFI and FIA.
1: Sherman Baumann sdwarf36@aol.com
2:Technical
3: Section E.Collision protection mimimum requirements;
#2' rollcage required in all cars with the exception of:
4: change to rollcage and fire retardant gear as per technical rule 1.clothing BB. clothing.
also change the wording in E.2 (b) from "rollcage" to "rollcage and fire retardant gear" to be consistant.
5: Thoughts:
When the rules regarding fireproof gear were initailly written , the Prepared cars were the fastest. Now SP cars and some U cars are the quickest cars-facing the same dangers the rules were written for in the other classes.
THIS DOES NOT ALTER THE ROLLCAGE RULE! It was just the simplest place to install the rule without a major re-write.
Short form: need cage-need fireproof gear.
1) Steve Jones, Don Taylor, Drew Young (20-Jan-2010)
3) Technical and Safety Requirements
4) Section E.2.B.
5) Proposed:

(b) If the driver of an Unprepared or Street Prepared car gets a time that is
less than the breakout time (they broke out), they will receive a warning
that they broke out and the time will not be recorded and will not count in the event results or
year-end points. If they break out a second time during the event (either
day) after receiving a warning, or if they break out by more than 10 seconds (Philo: 5 seconds) on
a single run
, they will require a roll cage <<delete: for any future
event at the same>>
at the venue with the same Unprepared or Street Prepared
car and the time will not be recorded, does not count in the event results or year-end points.
After they breakout a second time, or exceeding the break-out by more than 10 seconds (Philo: 5 seconds), the driver will <<delete: also>> not be allowed to
drive again at the current event in the same Unprepared or Street Prepared car.

Version without the edits:

(b) If the driver of an Unprepared or Street Prepared car gets a time that is
less than the breakout time (they broke out), they will receive a warning
that they broke out and the time will not be recorded and will not count in the event results or
year-end points. If they break out a second time during the event (either
day) after receiving a warning, or if they break out by more than 10 seconds (Philo: 5 seconds) on
a single run, they will require a roll cage at the venue with the same Unprepared or Street Prepared
car and the time will not be recorded and does not count in the event results or year-end points.
After they breakout a second time, or exceeding the break-out by more than 10 seconds (Philo: 5 seconds),
the driver will not be allowed to drive again at the current event in the same Unprepared or Street Prepared car.
1) Don Taylor (20-Jan-2010)
3) Technical and Safety Requirements
4) Section E.5.

Current wording: Head rest, maximum of 3” behind driver’s head as seated. Any area
reachable by driver’s head must be covered by shock-absorbing material.

5) Proposed: Head rest, maximum of 3" behind driver’s head as seated. Any area
reachable by driver’s head must be covered by high density shock-absorbing material.
1. Nelson Shepard (03-Feb-2010)
3. Technical Rules
4.E. Collision Protection

Proposed Breakout Times
Ascutney.......3:16
Burke...........2:30 ( no change )
Okemo..........2:41
Philo.............1:17
Bolton...........1:32 ( no change )

Original BO times were based on average ETs, and these "averages" have decreased since their inception.
These proposed times are based on ETs of an actual average car.
1. Don Taylor (04-Feb-2010)
3. Technical Rules
1.C.1. a. Snell SA2000 or newer, or b. FIA legal; Effective on January 1, 2011 SA 2005 or newer helmets or FIA legal

Reason to include in 2010 rules is to give everyone a year to purchase a newer helmet if they are looking to purchase a helmet and to allow people with older helmets that are valid in 2010 to be prepared for the 2011 season.
1) Michael Wilson (04-Feb-2010)
3) Technical Regulations
4) 4.E.2
5)
add section (c) as follows:
Drivers who have driven more than 15 NEHA hillclimbs with no NEHA crashes in
their last 15 NEHA hillclimbs, and have driven at NEHA hillclimbs in the last 4
years, are exempt from the breakout rule.

6) To allow people who have developed safe experience in their uncaged cars
through the existing breakout rule to use that experience, and to allow people
who have safe experience at the hill to migrate to a lower-vehicle-maintenance
driving plan if they want.

If there is any interest, this could be reworded as an informal or a formal
license, with different qualifications than the pure crash-free experience. It
could also be reworded for a faster breakout for the licensees rather than no
breakout.
1) Michael Wilson (04-Feb-2010)
3) Technical Regulations
4) 4.E.2
4. Cockpit
E. Collision Protection minimum requirements
Proposal:

5) Delete items E1 and E2 and replace with text from 2005 rules:
1. Roll cage required in all P, F-2, and F-L cars, and all S cars that were not
driven to the event under their own power."

6) This is really what I think the rule should be, as long as the S classes are
what they are. I would like to find a way to allow daily drivers be driven
uncaged at the hill even if they are trailered (such as when someone wants their
motorhome at the hill) but I have no way I know to word that. Not that it
really matters, since nobody else thinks this is a good idea.
John Reed (05-Feb-2010)
Technical
Add to 3.A.1 "Maximum wheelbase of 144", waivable only by prior approval of the tow operator and the chairman or designee (i.e. tech inspector)"
John Reed (05-Feb-2010)
Technical

Revise 2.A.5 , which currently reads, "Suspension to be in generally safe condition and suitable for high-speed competition."

Change to: "Suspension to be fully operable, with adequate travel, and be in safe condition for competition on the event's course."

Add to 2.CC.1 "Wheels to be a minimum of 12" in diameter, unless production based car originally equipped with 10"

Add to 4.E.11 "Cockpit to be entirely contained within the wheelbase"
John Reed (05-Feb-2010)
Technical

Add to 3.B.1 : "Numbers will be 2 or 3 numerals, or, at the registrars option, 2 numerals and a letter."
John Reed (05-Feb-2010)

An alternate proposal to Sherm's, with the same intent.

Change 1.B.3 to read: Fire retardant outer clothing and gloves, equivalent to SFI/FIA spec. recommended, required of entries requiring roll cages per E.2

Change 1.BB.1to read: Fire retardant outer clothing, equivalent to SFI/FIA spec required. Multiple layers, socks, and shoes of similar spec. recommended.
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
Posts: 2260
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: 2010 Season Rules Proposals

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

I'm working with a group to come up with our proposal. Let's see everyone else's proposals. No reason to wait until the deadline. Or course, the shorter the meeting, the more time to belly up to the bar. ;)
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
Posts: 2260
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: 2010 Season Rules Proposals

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

To keep this thread clear of discussion, I have moved Walter's proposal and discussion to the Technical section.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=237
Steve
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
Posts: 2260
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: 2010 Season Rules Proposals

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

Reminder...
Deadline: Proposal are accepted up to 05-Feb-2010
Presently, I only have one rule. I know that I am working with a group on our submission. Do not wait until the last minute!
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
sdwarf36
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:06 pm

Re: 2010 Season Rules Proposals

Post by sdwarf36 »

1: Sherman Baumann sdwarf36@aol.com
2:Technical
3: Section E.Collision protection mimimum requirements;
#2' rollcage required in all cars with the exception of:
4: change to rollcage and fire retardant gear as per technical rule 1.clothing BB. clothing.
also change the wording in E.2 (b) from "rollcage" to "rollcage and fire retardant gear" to be consistant.
5: Thoughts:
When the rules regarding fireproof gear were initailly written , the Prepared cars were the fastest. Now SP cars and some U cars are the quickest cars-facing the same dangers the rules were written for in the other classes.
THIS DOES NOT ALTER THE ROLLCAGE RULE! It was just the simplest place to install the rule without a major re-write.
Short form: need cage-need fireproof gear.
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
Posts: 2260
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: 2010 Season Rules Proposals

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

Sherman's, Steve/Don/Drew, and Don proposals have been added.
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
Posts: 2260
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: 2010 Season Rules Proposals

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

All rule proposals have been posted to date. If yours is missing, either PM me here or e-mail me at SCCVermont@aol.com.
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
Posts: 2260
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: 2010 Season Rules Proposals

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

Reminder.... just three more days.
Deadline: Proposal are accepted up to 05-Feb-2010
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
nelson
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:19 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: 2010 Season Rules Proposals

Post by nelson »

Nelson Shepard
nelson@vtcar.com
Technical Rules
4.E. Collision Protection

Proposed Breakout Times
Ascutney.......3:16
Burke...........2:30 ( no change )
Okemo..........2:41
Philo.............1:17
Bolton...........1:32 ( no change )

Original BO times were based on average ETs, and these "averages" have decreased since their inception.
These proposed times are based on ETs of an actual average car.
shelbyeast
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:20 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: 2010 Season Rules Proposals

Post by shelbyeast »

rules proposal technical and saftey 1C to take effect on January 1 2011 SA 2005 or newer helmets or FIA This would give people a year to upgrade helmet before it is mandated Don Taylor Shelbyeast
Post Reply