Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

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walterclark
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Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

Post by walterclark »

On Sunday at Burke as we waited for the hard working volunteers to clean up the mess on the road left when Earl's radiator hose let go, James Melhuish came up to me and suggested we might want to consider a rule for next year prohibiting antifreeze in the prepared classes - e.g. anywhere but in U class. I think the rationale is that race prepared cars are more likely to overheat and spew than U cars since the engine power is usually bumped up but the cooling system capabilities are not. Also race prepared cars are less likely to be daily driven or need to run a 50-50 antifreeze for warranty purposes.

The more I thought about it the more I agree, for a couple reasons.

Ethylene and Propylene Glycol antifreeze spills are slippery and need to be cleaned up. Propylene Glycol can be washed away but that requires water be brought to the scene. Washing away Ethylene Glycol puts both plants and animals at risk (and again water is scare on the hills). Peat-moss type absorbent and subsequent burning of the peat is used...Very time consuming.

Ethylene Glycol is toxic. More accurately it oxidizes in the body and produces the toxic oxalic acid which attacks the central nervous system, heart and kidneys. It is also a sweet tasting liquid so any left standing may attract animals to consume it. It has also been shown to be readily absorbed by plants which then tend to die out. Propylene Glycol has a very low toxicity rating - very large quantities must be consumed quickly to produce any toxic effects. It can cause water quality problems for fish because the microbes which consume it absorb large quantities of oxygen in the process, lowering available oxygen for fish. At low concentrations in water this is not a particular problem.

Since Burke I switched to water coolant with a 3% concentration of Redline's Water Wetter (basically Propylene Glycol). Water Wetter has been shown to provide adequate lubrication and anti-corrosion properties at 3% concentration with distilled water for cooling systems. And a spill at such low concentrations is not particularly slippery, toxic or likely to harm streams or ponds.

The downsides I see to such a rule are 1) cold temps and 2) SP cars that are also daily drivers. Events like Philo can get pretty cold, potentially below the freeze point of a water or water/water wetter coolant. Then we must drain the water (or part of it) and add in an antifreeze for winter storage or use, or thoroughly drain the system before storage. We have a few SP cars for whom this would be a burden since it is not generally recommended to run a water/water wetter only coolant on street driven cars (Redline suggests a 25% minimum concentration of antifreeze during warm temps and up to 50% in cold for street driven cars). I think anything we can do to reduce the number of long delays due to coolant leaks and cleanup would be good.

Comments? Other ideas?
Last edited by walterclark on Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jkale
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Re: Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

Post by jkale »

I like it. Lets set a maximum % of antifreeze that can be run in anything but U cars..
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Re: Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

Post by STI NICK »

I like the idea. I have already reduced the coolant level down to a 25% mixture. I was considering doing the water wetter, but I do drive mine on the street during the summer.
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Re: Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

Post by sachilles »

My random thoughts:

For the overheating issues, I think an overflow catch bottle should do the trick, and that is already in the rules. Probably is worth a reminder to folks.
E. Coolant Overflow
1. One-quart minimum nonpressurized reservoir required or to meet
manufacturer's specifications.
As to regulating the fluid used, I think there are a fair amount of daily driven SP cars in addition to the U cars. I think you might get a fair amount of push back. I'm on the fence about it. Wouldn't have even thought of it being an issue had you not mentioned it though. Perhaps NEHA could offer it as an "official recommendation" and stongly encourage it's use. Something along the same lines as the Flemke bar line in the cage section of the rules. I think many of us would take the environment/hill into consideration the next time we deal with coolant in our cars. Probably something similar could be mentioned about addressing any other random leaks in a timely manner.
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Re: Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

Post by STI NICK »

the last few major overflow issues were because of hoses breaking. Not that they didnt have overflow bottles. But still a good reminder
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Re: Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

How would running water + waterwetter affect my system that runs G12?
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Re: Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

Post by sdwarf36 »

Michele asked if I told you to write this Walter-we discussed it on the way home from Burke. I've been busy + the last suggestion I had had unwanted consquences. :oops: so I havent spoke up yet.
Don't forget we also had a delay Sat for a heater hose coming off. I don't know about track days, but at any form of racing antifreeze isn't allow-for that very reason-delay in clean up time -straight water equals nearly zero clean up.
It's delayed us many many times over the years-far more than oil downs.
It almost got us thrown out of Philo.
Speaking of Philo-it gets cold but not THAT cold. I've done the last 9 years with straight water in the car-upper 20's for a few hours overnight won't freeze a car solid.
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Re: Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

Post by walterclark »

Rabbit Farmer wrote:How would running water + waterwetter affect my system that runs G12?
I havent read anything that suggests the water/water wetter combo will hurt a VW.
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Re: Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

Post by jkale »

Rabbit Farmer wrote:How would running water + waterwetter affect my system that runs G12?
It voids your warranty...
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Re: Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

jkale wrote:
Rabbit Farmer wrote:How would running water + waterwetter affect my system that runs G12?
It voids your warranty...
If that is correct, that would be problematic for someone in SP. P wouldn't be an issue. U isn't being suggested here. Of course, someone could just change it for the event.

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