Project Fiero

Project Fiero

Postby hammer » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:01 pm

As some of you know, I've recently purchased an '88 Fiero GT to use as a hill climb car. I had planned on racing one of the last events this year with the car as is, but following the crashes at Okemo II last weekend I've decided to focus on safety and wait until next year when I can have the car properly prepared. Which brings me to all of you for advice. At this point I don't want to cage the car as I don't plan on breaking out and I still want it to be useable everyday. What I'm envisioning is just putting in a racing seat and harness so that I'm a bit better contained in the car and can wear a HANS device if I desire. Here are a few questions:

1: If I understand the rules correctly, as long as the seat is FIA certified then I don't need a brace behind the headrest?

2: Is a seatbelt bar required? Or could the harnesses be bolted directly to the firewall behind the seat since the car is mid-engined?

3: What seats and belts do you guys recommend? I've looked at Sparco so far and found these.
- http://www.sparcousa.com/product/sprint-v
- http://www.sparcousa.com/product/6pt-belt-hans

I want a seat that is still comfortable to use everyday but supportive enough for competition. And I am trying to do this for as reasonable as possible, so I don't want to spend a ton of money. Thanks in advance for your help and here are a few pictures of the new car!
-Sam

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1985 Honda Nighthawk S
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby dsldubn » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:01 am

someone else who knows much more will probably need to chime in, but here's my two cents..

I feel that a race seat and harness is safer...but maybe not in some situations if there's no cage. Many will argue that without a cage it's best to have a seat that folds in the event of a roll over so you're not stuck in an upright position with the roof crushing in. With that being said, I ran my rabbit for a year or two with no cage and a race seat/harness. I had just a harness bar between the B pillars to mount the belts so they were legal. This was acceptable for tech, however this was at least a few years back now and a lot of the safety rules have changed a lot. Still seems OK as long as you stay under break out. I felt safer with a seat/harness anyway, and was a lot faster when I wasn't fighting to stay on a seat...you can focus on driving instead of holding yourself in, which is nice.

As for a harness, there are piles of different ones to choose from. For an inexpensive set up a lot of us use cheap force...I mean G force. They work great and are inexpensive. Keep in mind you have to change them every few years.

Congrats on picking up a car to hillclimb with! Is that a 2.8 auto?
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby sachilles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:14 am

In addition to what Jason said, I'll add this. The angle of the belts makes a big difference.
First, you need to make sure the shoulder belt mount is strong enough for the task(as well as the other mounts), but you also need to make sure the angle from your shoulders is correct. I think Don likes to see no more than 20° down from your shoulders, but 10° being ideal.
Below is an example of directions from a 5 point install.
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby walterclark » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:37 pm

Everything said above is correct.

We DO accept race seats and harnesses without a cage. Sit in any prospective seat to make sure that you not only fit the seat but that things like the shoulder harness openings are the right height for you and a H&NR.

Pay particular attention to belt mounting points. Get the locations right AFTER you install a FIA race seat...

Around 0 to -10 degrees for the shoulder harnesses (make it zero without a Hans and it will be maybe -10 with one), spaced at the bulkhead per the Hans instructions (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fia.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fregulation%2Ffile%2FGuide_HANS_2007_0.pdf&ei=7KoLUpyOJ4WbygHYvYB4&usg=AFQjCNFV_6GD0J2HF9Q2DfLU16Md6zk68w&sig2=uRqrYf81A1GOiOn7quJfug&bvm=bv.50723672,d.aWc, and well secured. If you mount them to a bullkhead I suggest you use eyebolts with large backing plates and clip-in belt ends as this will give you the best lead alignment. You dont want the belt end fittings to be forced away from a "straight with the belt" position more than a few degrees because this can cause a number of issues including uneven loading of the belt at the end fitting, which may result in a cut belt upon impact. The eyebolt approach prevents this. Use quality bolts made for this purpose. At least M12 8.8 or 7/16 grade 5 cap bolts and forged eyebolts. G-Force and others sell eyebolts specifically for harness use. Same recommendations apply to the lapbelts.

As close to 45 degrees for the waist belts as possible, mounting bolts loaded in shear and well backed (this means mounting them to the tunnel and the inside of the sill/rocker. Stock locations are OK so long the angle isnt way off the 45 target. No higher than 60 and no lower than 30.

The crotch belt(s), if mounted to the floor (some manufacturers permit them to be routed to the waist belt mounts) should go straight down (up to about 20 degrees back) from the hole in the seat bottom to end fitting(s). These should be well backed as they are in tension.

All the above angles are calculated to prevent the belts from "lengthening" before they are fully loaded in an impact (essentially allowing you to move, then suddenly stop), from applying undue load on your spine and to avoid having the waist belts ride up over your hip bones in an impact.
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby sciroccohp » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:39 pm

I have a pair of those seats (worn and a little beat up) for 200 bucks if you are interested but I am way down in CT.
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby sachilles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:29 pm

If he doesn't bite on them. I'm looking for a passenger seat and one of those would fit the bill. Or if you only want one, I'd buy the second one from you. :vulture:
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby hammer » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:28 pm

Thanks for all the replies! This will give me a lot of good information to go off of. I'm not in the market right now to buy this equipment, hence my decision to hold off racing till next year, so feel free to go for those seats Seth.

Walter, I would really like to be able to sit in a seat before I purchased it but I don't know of any place near me (Burlington VT area) that sells them. Do you know of any shops in the New England area? Or anyone in my area know of a good place to go try out seats?

Jason, it is the 2.8l V6 but it's a 5 spd manual, not auto. And since it only weighs ~2700 lbs, she goes pretty good!
Sam Moultroup
http://moultroupracing.blogspot.com/
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby sdwarf36 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:38 pm

I can bring them to Vt if they can get to me. Your travels make it to Moodus-or Waterbury?
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
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Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
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Re: Project Fiero

Postby walterclark » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:15 pm

The best place I know of is HMS Motorsports www​.hmsmotorsport.com.

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Re: Project Fiero

Postby hammer » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:28 pm

Awesome! Thanks Walter. I may need to make a trip down there sometime to have a look.
Sam Moultroup
http://moultroupracing.blogspot.com/
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