Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

[walterclark]

How many SP cars havent already voided their (powertrain) warranty by modifying other things...or racing?

[sdwarf36]

Of course, someone could just change it for the event.

Yup-problem solved.

[walterclark]

I went looking for who and what restricts antifreeze use for written statements.

From the 2010 NASA CCR (Club Codes and Regulations):

15.18 Engine Coolant
Ethylene Glycol-based antifreeze and other additives that may cause a slippery
condition if spilled on track are prohibited. Other water additives such as Redline Water
Wetter may be used.

AMSA Roadracing rules:

4. Cooling. All water cooled motorcycles must use an approved coolant. No glycol products may be used, such
as antifreeze. Water Wetter or similar must be used.

WMRRA rules:

Anti-freeze must be flushed and replaced with water (Water Wetter™ is allowed)

2010 PCA rules:

22. Drivers of water-cooled cars should be aware that anti-freeze is a slippery substance and consideration should be given to using water only, a reduced concentration of anti-freeze, or an anti-freeze substitute.


I can find no specific SCCA rule on the subject but many tracks where SCCA events occur seem to have published bans on any antifreeze, some ban only ethylene glycol and most permit water with water wetter. This conclusion is based on web searches and a mix of hits on tracks web sites and road racer, both motorcycle and automotive forums.

I did a little test using 0%, 10%, 25% and 50% additions of ethylene glycol based antifreeze to water, plus a sample of my 3% water wetter. The first test was to see if below some concentration the ethylene glycol solution seemed less slippery on a non-porous surface. The second was to see how a identical amounts of each solution behaved over several hours - overnight (I did not include the water wetter mix soon enough to compare it) in a low humidity 75 degree room. I chose to not go with a warmer climate because I didnt want to encourage the ethylene glycol to vaporize. In the first case I was not able to detect a significant difference in drag friction when pulling a small flat object across any of the fluids. In the second I found the 0% had completely evaporated leaving no residue and the other 3 ethylene glycol mixes were still there in about equal quantities, albeit some less than 10 hours earlier. I also just "felt" the solutions with my fingers (wearing a nitrile glove). Each succeeding increase in ethylene glycol concentration felt slipperier than the lower when rubbed between my finger and thumb and even at 10% I could clearly tell it wasnt the same as pure water. The water wetter solution felt just like water. Observing the fluids as I dragged a finger thru them all the ethylene glycol solutions looked like an oil in the way they parted and came back together. The water wetter solution and the pure water looked like water and not oil. It is hard to draw any solid conclusions but from this I would have to say there is probably no concentration of ethylene glycol above 0% that would not need cleanup. Obviously, there would be less ethylene glycol in a lower % mix to deal with but as it seems to slow the evaporation of the water it is mixed with, just letting it dry doesnt seem to be a good option, and a gallon is a gallon from a cleanup standpoint if it must be absorbed. I want to let all of them dry until the water is gone to see if I see anything I would not expect and to see how the water/water wetter behaves.

[Rabbit Farmer]

Good analysis. Honestly, I think for this season if we suggest that people use water + water wetter (or the like) in all cars, people will do it. I never thought of doing it in my Golf (it would be a heck of a lot cheaper) as I thought I had to run G12. When I get the Rabbit back together, I will try to remember to use water + WW.

Good idea for this season and a good proposal for 2011.

Steve

[STI NICK]

How many SP cars havent already voided their (powertrain) warranty by modifying other things...or racing?

I'm pretty sure he wasnt being serious. Although I do remember steve still getting recalls done on his Golf after it was gutted and caged. Granted the motor was still stock.

[walterclark]

How many SP cars havent already voided their (powertrain) warranty by modifying other things...or racing?

I'm pretty sure he wasnt being serious. Although I do remember steve still getting recalls done on his Golf after it was gutted and caged. Granted the motor was still stock.

Yes, I was thinking Joey wasnt serious but it did make me think...maybe some companies are NOT like VOA and Mitsubishi and we actually do have a couple SP cars that still have their warranties being honored.

Also, recalls are not limited to the "warranty" period nor do they require that a warranty be in effect. Recalls are almost always tied into safety concerns.

[sciroccohp]

I am all for it. (of course I already run water wetter so I dont have to do anything)

[STI NICK]

Just switched my car over to no coolant. I ended up using Mocool which is made by Motul. Not sure of the cost off the top of my head but around $15 for a bottle. It took about 3/4 of a bottle for my car. 5% mixture. according to the container is says ok for daily driving use. I know it was mentioned in the first post that water wetter is not recommended for daily driving.

[Rabbit Farmer]

Does Joey carry Mocool?

[STI NICK]

He does keep a couple bottles on the shelf, but I would call to make sure he still has some. It's getting more popular.