Anti-freeze restriction for 2011?

[KevinGale]

I agree with Sherm on the cold part. It just isn't cold enough for long enough at Philo to be a problem.

[Rabbit Farmer]

I removed my month-old Mocool from the Golf to add back the expensive G-12 for winter storage.

[walterclark]

I will be pulling my engine/transmission in a week or so and want to be sure whatever remains in the block after draining the cooling system (always seems like a lot) wont freeze solid and has some corrosion inhibitors. I dont want to put Ethylene Glycol back in so I went looking for Propylene Glycol antifreeze. Seems like Peak and Prestone make a product but nobody around here carries it despite what the manufacturer and retailer sites say. I guess it doesnt sell well. I ordered a gallon from Amsoil. I will probably drain the system then pour some into the hose to the head and spin the pump some to mix it with what is in the block, then drain again. Since the thermostat will be closed the pump will only recirculate what is in the block.

I am probably going to go ahead and write a proposal that requires SP and P cars not be permitted to run ethylene glycol and only low concentrations of propylene glycol (or wetting agents). I am thinking we may want to also include specific U class cars if judged a risk by tech or an event chair. We do get some older unprepared cars that look like the hoses and other parts are going to fail any time.

Again the purpose of this is to be easier to clean up after when a cooling system fails with a significant added benefit of being more ecologically friendly.

Any comments not already made in the thread or changed opinions?

[Number_5]

Walt
Coild you use the RV antifreeze? As long as you wont be getting the engine hot?
John

[walterclark]

Walt
Coild you use the RV antifreeze? As long as you wont be getting the engine hot?
John

I believe they are mostly propylene glycol and denatured alcohol mixed. The first part is fine but I am not comfortable with the way the second would affect seals of unknown origin and rubber hoses...that stuff is supposed to attack rubber.

[walterclark]

Well I guess it is time to either make this a rules proposal or not...

First, Thanks Steve for getting me off the dime on this and for your recent input.

I have thought about this a bit and have come to the conclusion that a RULE, at least at the present time, is difficult to enforce and has other potential negative issues, such as someone draining their coolant on the ground at a hill to switch to water in order to comply. I am thinking of something more like a suggestion or recommendation, rather than a hard rule with its accompanying need for exceptions, limits and enforcement methods.

Perhaps a statement something like this in the Regulations section:

In the interest of the environment and the inevitable cleanup delays in the event of an on-road spill, competitors should avoid use of coolants containing ethylene glycol or propylene glycol in concentrations above 10% volume with water at NEHA hilllcimbs. Water or water with low concentrations of additives such as commercially available coolant system "water wetter" products in 5%-10% concentration is recommended.

Comments or suggestions?

[Rabbit Farmer]

I like the intent... Remove "at NEHA hillclimbs" as it is a given. I think it is a bit long as it would take up approx 6 lines in the rules, but I'm unsure how to shorten it as they all seem to be key words.

In the interest of the environment, and the inevitable cleanup delays in the event
of an on-road spill, competitors should avoid use of coolants containing ethylene glycol
or propylene glycol in concentrations above 10% volume with water. Water or water with
low concentrations of additives such as commercially available coolant system "water wetter"
products in 5%-10% concentration is recommended.

4 line version removing the explanation....

Competitors should avoid use of coolants containing ethylene glycol
or propylene glycol in concentrations above 10% volume with water. Water or water with
low concentrations of additives such as commercially available coolant system "water wetter"
products in 5%-10% concentration is recommended

[sdwarf36]

Well I guess it is time to either make this a rules proposal or not...

First, Thanks Steve for getting me off the dime on this and for your recent input.

I have thought about this a bit and have come to the conclusion that a RULE, at least at the present time, is difficult to enforce and has other potential negative issues, such as someone draining their coolant on the ground at a hill to switch to water in order to comply. I am thinking of something more like a suggestion or recommendation, rather than a hard rule with its accompanying need for exceptions, limits and enforcement methods.

Perhaps a statement something like this in the Regulations section:

In the interest of the environment and the inevitable cleanup delays in the event of an on-road spill, competitors should avoid use of coolants containing ethylene glycol or propylene glycol in concentrations above 10% volume with water at NEHA hilllcimbs. Water or water with low concentrations of additives such as commercially available coolant system "water wetter" products in 5%-10% concentration is recommended.

Comments or suggestions?

A cheap floating balls style antifreeze tester would be fine-and I'm sure thats one of those things you could tech each car once "just to be sure" and be done with it. (Stafford Speedway tests with one.) And I'm not worried if the car has 5% or 7% water wetter-I'm worried about it have 2 gallons of slick green stuff in the radiator or not.

If someone spills a quart or gallon in the parking lot -or on turn 19, the eviromental impact is the same-only one of them takes an hour to clean up-costs us a run-and makes one corner between crap + dangerous for the rest of the day.

The simpler the rule, the better. " in P-FL and SP, the only coolant allowed is water or water with a small amount of water wetter or other similar product."

[KevinGale]

I would add the rule and not try to enforce it at tech. Just like we don't try to enforce rules by doing engine tear downs. The rule would exist. Most people would follow it and when someone didn't and dumped coolant all over the course we would have a legitimate reason to yell at them. Seems like a good thing all around.

If someone shows up with coolant and you find out about it at tech you can just give them a one event waiver. No one is going to have a problem with that. Then they don't have a reason to dump coolant in the campground or parking lot.

[BugEyeRex]

I would add the rule and not try to enforce it at tech. Just like we don't try to enforce rules by doing engine tear downs. The rule would exist. Most people would follow it and when someone didn't and dumped coolant all over the course we would have a legitimate reason to yell at them. Seems like a good thing all around.

If someone shows up with coolant and you find out about it at tech you can just give them a one event waiver. No one is going to have a problem with that. Then they don't have a reason to dump coolant in the campground or parking lot.

This seems to be a reasonable approach.