Need some opinions...

[STI NICK]

Oh--I think he might have a clue--since hes CO_CHAIRED Burke! Also worked the WRECKER CREW-champ in P2-oh--and you see all those hillclimb t-shirts from 2004-2006? HE had them made-and donated the profits to the club!!-Also probably the best aluminum welder/fabricator to run with us. He moved down south a few years back.
{ Greg! Dammit-stop lurking + check in more often-we all miss you!!! }

Keep in mind that hillclimbing existed before you got here.

and yet he hasnt been here in the last few years and doesnt have a clue what was said or done by either party, and his post is the most useless one of them all.

How about we find a way to make the hills wireless instead of beating a dead horse.

[squirrely_33]

...and besides wasn't it Smokey that came down off the mountain carrying 2 stone tablets with the hillclimb rules on them.

I'll keep most of what I'm thinking to myself, as I seem to have forgotten my catchers mask.

I was not at Ascutney, so I can not comment on the "inappropriate behavior". I will say, I agree with Joey, but not the manner in which he chose to approach the situation. The event chair should have been sought out. From the looks of it, arguing with control did not do it. Some things should be said in private and if privacy doesen’t permit itself then you bite your f***ing tongue.

I think the larger issue here is that , among other things the SCCNH has made it a tradition to close Ascutney early, while still taking full entry fees. That is not fair to drivers, irregardless what the run count is. All other events are consistently run till the end of the day.(Barring sudden microburst, updraft, or the wicked witch showing up)

Mike P

[Rabbit Farmer]

Speak with SCCNH directly. Nothing can be resolved here.

[jkale]

You're right Steve, nothing can be solved here regarding the arguement. I spoke to Howard, there is no point discussing that any further..

The issue of Ascutney always closing early is the sole reason for what happened at control at Ascutney 2. This issue can be discussed here because it upsets a lot of people and discourages them from ever going back until the problem is solved.

Obviously talking to the chair(Dave Burden) did not help the issue, we tried that at Ascutney 1. He told us Drew made the decision to close the hill early. So, when Dave was no where to be found at Ascutney 2, we went to Drew. Which obviously was a huge mistake and the wrong way to go about getting the problem solved.

So, I am curious now, as to what can be done to extend the duration of the time that the hill is open for..regardless of how many runs we get. Because if nothing is done about it and the hill is going to be run until 2 or 3 every time we are there, I think entry cost should drop and the scheduled amount of runs should be on the registration form. Because jotting down a note on a dry erase board at a location that 75% of the drivers will never see is not the way to let everyone know that the hill is closing early. That is just kindof...sneeky?

We only drive this hill twice a year. Usually we get 2-3 runs a day. Thats less than 12-18 minutes of seat time on race day a year. Lets try to increase that by running until 4:30 or 4 every Sunday. We have repeatedly volounteered to help tear the hill down if it stays open till a reasonable hour but we are always ignored. So, tell me, SCCNH, how can we(the drivers) help to keep the hill open for the maximum amount of time EVERY event?

[Rabbit Farmer]

So, tell me, SCCNH, how can we(the drivers) help to keep the hill open for the maximum amount of time EVERY event?

Very good question. I have offered to do what I can to make this possible also. In addition, I would love to see the full hill being run!

[DaveEstey]

Breaking out the calculator here's what I came up with for seat time on each Mountain based on events held this year:
Numbers are approximate
2.7 miles Spring Okemo (Avg 2:45) x 6 runs = 16.5 minutes with 50 drivers
2.7 miles Fall Okemo (Avg 2:30 per run) x 8 runs = 20 minutes with 40 drivers

2.9 miles Spring Ascutney (Avg 3:15 per run) x 6 runs = 19.5 minutes with 54 drivers
2.9 miles Fall Ascutney (Avg 3:10 per run) x 11 runs = 35 minutes with 36 drivers

2.1 miles Burke Spring (2:34 avg) x 7 runs = 17.5 minutes with 39 drivers
2.1 miles Burke Fall (avg 2:23 per run) x 13 runs = 30 minutes with 33 drivers

1.1 miles Philo (avg 1:22 per run) x 14 runs = 18.5 minutes with 39 entries

It reveals some interesting patterns. First off people make a lot of gains in the second trip to the hill. Second, attendance drops as the season progresses. Third, Ascutney isn't off the pace when it comes to seat time when compared to the other events.

And speaking as a wire crew intern, the wire can not be put up or taken down faster than it is. The only way to gain time would be to go wireless. The current crew has been doing the job since the early 70's, they have a system that works smoothly and efficiently, it's not a situation where they're working out the kinks. The biggest time consumer putting the wire ON the hill, is pushing it far enough off the road bed to avoid getting wrecked in an off and the road crossing.

The biggest time consumer with taking the wire off the hill is that it's pushed down into the weeds so it has to be dragged onto the road and then wound up. The wire isn't a situation where throwing more people at the job would improve it. It's a constant and the people doing it are good at it. If you think you could improve upon it then I would suggest being there at noon on Friday and volunteering yourself to learn the ins and outs of it and then make suggestions based on what you observe.

[jkale]

Dave, at Ascutney 1 this year, I was the guy in the back of the wire truck with the big stick getting the wire off the road and into the brush. I threw the wire up and over the branch where it crosses the road up top too. I know the ins and outs. Its pretty simple to do. At Ascutney 2, I witnessed the wire/hill taken down in record time. I think it had a little something to do with the hostility towards a few individuals that had a conversation at control. Wire crew was at the trailer unloading at 4:30. That is amazing. What I am getting at here is that should be the norm. And if it is, we can easily run the hill an hour later every event and have the wire/hill torn down with plenty of daylight to spare. I mean, I was home after Ascutney 2 before it got dark and I have a 2 hour drive. I am not trying to start another arguement here or get anybody upset with this statement, but, tearing down the hill should go like that at every Ascutney. It just seems to me that the wire crew like to take their time and drink a bunch of beer while they tear down the hill which is essentially what costs us that extra hour/hour and a half every event.

What I am getting at is: Let other people help tear the hill down or help tear the hill down if wire crew wants to sit back and relax and have some beer..Thats fine, and understandable... just dont let it cost us driving time.. Because thats when people start getting annoyed..

[sachilles]

That is an interesting data point(Dave). Some context should be included regarding lost driving time incidents(crash, mechanical, slow staging or whatever).

The root of this debate is, what is a reasonable time to close down the hill, given what might otherwise be a perfect day?

Is it a case of having a maximum (lets say six runs for sake of example)amount of runs per day, and the drivers load up their cars after their sixth run, whether at 1:30 or 4:07pm.
Or do you set a threshold time of no new run groups after x time(3pm, 3:30, 4pm, you pick).

I ask that folks consider setting some sort of standard, whether it is set by event, hill or series wide. It's important to know prior to registering as a driver. It is also extremely courteous to have this information for workers as well. Bottom line is we need some sort of baseline, so that we can all be on the same page in respect to our expectations. We all know that the unexpected can happen, and we'll have to roll with it if changes are made on the fly.

[BugEyeRex]

Great comparison Dave. You missed a few things in you comparison...

1. Philo- Many time consuming offs, an escort off the hill of unruly spectators and a start light that decided to act up. Closing time of the hill 5:30pm.

2. Burke 1- A storm rolls in early Sunday that has lots of rain and lightning. The hill for safety reason closes at lunch.

3. Burke 2- Hill on Sunday closes early because Speedway needed to transport a driver. We cannot run without Speedway available.

4. Okemo 1- I was not there but I know of two offs and No time runs on Saturday because of conditions. (however fam runs were done)

5. Okemo 2- A few offs. One that I remember taking some time. Hill stayed open on Sunday to 4:30ish. Many people helped tear down the hill. I have never seen a hill get packed up as fast as that day.

6. Ascutney 1- Late start. There were offs and mechanical problems. Hill shut at 2:30pm on Sunday.

7. Ascutney 2 -I was only there on Sunday. Sunday got started early. At lunchtime 2 runs after lunch was posted on Dave's trailer. Hill was shut down early. The hill would have been closed at 2:30ish if it was not for the car with oil spill that took time to clean up.

If more people from SCCNH attended the rest of the series they might understand where some people that are frustrated are comming from.

[DaveEstey]

Ascutney I shut down early because one of the rally class cars stuffed itself on the outside of the hairpin before check 5, not because anybody decided 2:30 was the time to stop.

Okemo 1 didn't have fam runs Saturday caused by conditions, there weren't enough volunteers.

I understand frustration, Chris. What I don't understand is disrespecting volunteers and racers that have been a part of the history of hillclimbing in this area for longer than I've been alive. The sign was posted at lunch that there would be 2 more runs, if drivers had, based on the smoothness of the earlier part of the day, talked with Dave Burden I'm fairly certain that there could have been more runs Sunday. There could have been a discussion rather than an altercation.

I'm sorry but saying "I didn't see the sign" doesn't cut it in any racing situation. If you go to NHMS with COMM and don't pay attention to postings, tough cookies, and you pay a hell of a lot more to race with them too. It's the responsibility of the competitor to stay on top of what's going on. Most of the day Sunday I went out of my way while running grid to give Joey a heads up on how many cars were left in the run while he was getting skeletor running. I didn't do it because I had to, I did it because I wanted to and I appreciate Joey as a fellow racer. I wanted him to get as many runs in as possible.

I ALWAYS want people to get as many runs as possible because when I'm able to, I'm racing too. But after having been there since noon on Friday I was exhausted, and being half the age of the wire crew guys, I can imagine they were feeling it too, so I won't for a second hold it against them for wanting to pack up and get home in time to get a hot shower, a warm meal and a good night sleep before going to work Monday. I set the course up Friday, worked check 7 and took photos for the trophys Saturday, worked grid Sunday and finished the photo work and putting the trophys together, and then packed the trailer.

If somebody wants to join me on a consistent basis running wire crew, I will surely pass that fact on and we can bull and jam the course up Friday and down Sunday.

When I piece back the CRX's engine from it's failure at Ascutney, I'll be coming to as many of the events as possible.