Wireless radio test - May 8th

[AnthonyB]

SCCNH has been working with local experts to make the Mt. Ascutney hill climb wireless. They would like to do a full scale test (all check points manned) on May 8th. The preliminary tests this week went very well but they would like to do a full hill test run before the upcoming hill climb. To do this we need 2-3 volunteers with cars to come by the hill on Sunday May 8th for an hour or so around noon (the exact time has yet to be determined). Lunch will be provided. If you have time to spare we would appreciate the help!


Thanks!

Anthony Burden

[Dave Burden]

A few pictures of the road from yesterday. It's passable to just past our finish although there are a few spots above Check 7 with snow and ice on the road. They should have plenty of firewood for later in the season with all the downed trees across the road. Right now the road above finish is not open. We came across a tree still blocking the road along with more snow.






Dave

[AnthonyB]

I vote we run it as is (at least remove the tree leaning the road)!

[KevinGale]

SCCNH has been working with local experts to make the Mt. Ascutney hill climb wireless.

This has been tried in the past and it was a disaster. The reason has nothing to do with reception. We were able to get radio reception at each checkpoint. The problem was the radios are half duplex. So while you are talking you can't hear anyone else talking. That might not seem to be a problem but in practice it is a huge problem with the way we run our hills.

We rely on being able to red flag a car within a very short period of time. With three cars on the hill there are often cases where cars are within 30 seconds of each other on the hill. The last time we tried to run purely radios the following happened.

Drew started a car. Then gave us an update on lunch and a few other things. That took about 10 seconds. During that 10 second window a car went off. The check point called this in but since Drew was talking he couldn't hear it. The check point called it in again but again Drew couldn't hear it. It also appeared that some people could only hear Drew (maybe his signal was stronger?) so half the hill didn't realize there was a problem. Drew stopped talking and suddenly he could hear. But at that point people were starting to panic a bit because we needed to get the cars red flagged. So several people jumped on the radio and all started saying things. While they were talking they couldn't hear anyone else. Drew of course started trying to figure out what was going on but because all the other people where talking they couldn't hear him asking questions.

All it all it took most of a minute to get everyone back on the same page and we only stopped the cars on the hill because workers were heads up enough to do it without being told.

The radios make our response time much longer than with the wire. This isn't a problem for rally type events since they don't usually red flag cars and it is considered normal to arrive at an accident scene at speed with no warning.

There is also the minor problem that the new start light only works with a wire.

[Number_5]

Anthony,
Marianne and I will be happy to assist if you still need help.
John Marsha

[walterclark]

SCCNH has been working with local experts to make the Mt. Ascutney hill climb wireless. They would like to do a full scale test (all check points manned) on May 8th. The preliminary tests this week went very well but they would like to do a full hill test run before the upcoming hill climb. To do this we need 2-3 volunteers with cars to come by the hill on Sunday May 8th for an hour or so around noon (the exact time has yet to be determined). Lunch will be provided. If you have time to spare we would appreciate the help!

I am curious as to the planed attributes and technology of this wireless system you are going to test. I pondered a number of solutions to the aging KSCC system but ended up rejecting all in favor of updating the existing hardware, due to either lack of functionality (e.g. lacking multi-line full duplex ability - see Kevin's comments above), reliability (for instance I considered a cell phone system linked together thru a conference call but learned providers have a habit of dropping individual callers and hosts will drop con calls at random) or costs (initial outlay, operating expense or both).

[Dave Burden]

No new equipment, just better utilization of the existing mobile units. We are aware of the lack of duplex communication but with a little training and communication protocol we feel we can work around that.

Dave

[sdwarf36]

I was racing in PA (where they do wireless with a wire back up) and was put into a situation because of what Kevin is talking about. Being a short hill, the checks were close together-Michele was working ck4? A car spun coming into a turn- and with other checks call me in going by quick, the signal was taken for the check with the spun car to call in a red flag-and control to respond. I ended up going past 2 checks that could have stopped me-and ened up getting to within 100ft (at full speed) to where the car was (luckily he had since continued on.) I ended up doing a frantic 95mph to zero while a worker with a scared look was waving the flag very seriously.
I love the IDEA of not having to set up a wire, but I can see where the few seconds lost in confusion with people talking over each other can make a small situation into a large one.

[walterclark]

I REALLY REALLY hope SCCNH doesnt intend to replace the full duplex multi-line wire and headsets with simplex HTs. The HT is fine to use from "the scene" to the nearest check or control as it extends a checkpoints comm ability to the scene of a stopped car or other incident and certainly working to improve use and range in this mode are excellent ideas. However, it is full of issues if used as a primary or exclusive method of managing safety on a hill and down right irresponsible (queue the lawyers) given the availability and proven superiority of the wire system on our existing mountains.

[sdwarf36]

Extremely "know nothing"question here-can things be set up with 2 frequencies? As in: 123.4 is used for calling cars in-and there is a second "panic button" maybe just sending a tone on 546.7. Control would also have the panic button. So check 3 is calling in a car--and ck 5 has a situation-hitting the panic button that sends the tone (which would get to everyone since its a different channel).