Project Rookie

User avatar
linc44
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:17 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Project Rookie

Post by linc44 »

This is not what I had hoped to write about in Project Rookie Part 2, but the stars were not aligned I guess and I am missing the Okemo 2 race this weekend.

The past month has been very busy but not very productive. In case you missed Sherman spilling the beans in the “Cars to Hillclimb With” thread of this forum, I had a rear spring snap on the Infiniti and it was in bad shape overall so I decided to sell it. This proved to be much more difficult than I had expected and it took nearly the entire break between Okemo 1 and Okemo 2 to get the G20 out of the driveway. The association where I live only allows 1 car per occupant, plus 1 extra, to be parked in the driveway. This meant that I had to wait until the Infiniti was sold in order to pick up and new “play car”. After literally hundreds of phone calls from interested buyers and numerous no-shows when they said they'd come look at it, the VERY FIRST person to come check it out purchased the car. Go figure.

Lesson Learned #5: Even the best thought out plans don't work out sometimes. It's easy to get frustrated but in the end you have to remember what this all is, a hobby. Yes, I am extremely disappointed to be missing Okemo 2, but I am thankful that I can even have the opportunity to own a play car to wrench on and take to the hill or track. It's not the end of the world and I am positive that there will be many more hillclimbs in the future.

Which brings me to the past week. With only 5 days before the second Okemo race, I picked up my “new” hillclimb car, a 1992 Honda Civic DX hatchback.

Image

Now its no AWD torque monster by any means but its certainly more peppy than the G20 (most likely thanks to almost 1000lbs less weight). It's simple, easy to get parts for, and if something ever breaks on it, I can swap in nearly any part from another Honda or Acura. It may only have 109hp and no VTEC but I think with a little preparation it will make a great hillclimb/autocross/general track day car to learn in. Plus, with only 140,000 miles on it, its barely getting broken in.

Lesson Learned #6: Simple and inexpensive are both good things in a sport that can drain your bank account quickly. I know some will laugh or frown at my choice of a little EG hatchback, but I am willing to give up some speed for a nearly bulletproof car that will start every time I turn the key (see Part 1 for why I love that). Plus, literally thousands of people have built a Civic hatchback (albeit some go for the JDM or “ricer” look, but there are also many who built one for racing) so a quick google search will yield an answer to any question I might ever have about the car and modifying it. The Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) rule applies to cars as well.

Working until the wee hours of this morning (the Saturday morning I was supposed to be at Okemo) I realized I just wasn't going to make it and so I frustratingly packed up the tool box for some shuteye. I had a plan for the car before I even got it home but I simply ran out of time. I will be laying out that plan below.

-The Usual Suspects: Replacing all the fluids and filters and belts, as well as the spark plugs and plug wires. With so few miles on the car, a little preventative maintenance will go a long way. DONE

-Rust Repair: The car has only one spot of rust about the size of a quarter in front of the rear wheel. A little rust converter and a shot of glossy black spray paint should so the trick just fine. DONE

A couple pictures of the car taped off after the repair. Rustoleum glossy black is eerily close to the factory color. Note to self, Lesson Learned #6 above applies to body repairs too. You have to love how easy it is to work on a beater Honda.
Image
Image

-Front Brake Pads and Rotors, and Stainless Brake Lines: With just a hair over 2000lbs and barely 100hp, exotic brakes are not required, but a refresh will work wonders for the bring downs. I never even used the brake going up the hill in the G20, so I don't expect to with this one either. DONE

-Stripping, Cleaning, and Repainting the Interior: The interior on this car is by far the worst part of it. It was full of sand when I picked it up, the dome light doesn't work, the radio doesn't work, every single seat is ripped, and the carpet has oxidized pennies and chips and gum all stuck to it. It's in disgusting condition. Thankfully, you dont need ANY of that for a race car. After some research, losing everything inside should bring me down to roughly 1900lbs and adding in a Kirkey aluminum seat with seat cover mounted on the stock rails should add 10-15 back.

-Wheel and Tires: The car currently has BFG g-Sports on the front and snow tires on the rear, all mounted on 14” steelies. While having snow tires in the back may aid in reducing understeer, I'm going to look for another set of steelies and 4 matching tires for a better setup.

-Rear Sway Bar and Alignment: The shocks, springs, and suspension arms all look great for being 19 years old, so I will run those until they need to be replaced and upgrade them at that point. Some preliminary driving however has shown that the car understeers badly. Having a double-wishbone strut suspension should allow for plenty of camber and toe adjustments for non R-compund tires, and should help dial out some of the terminal understeer, but I think a larger rear sway bar might be in order as well. Nothing too huge as I like my cars set up neutral with just a hint of understeer (must be from my autocrossing, where understeer helps to keep the car settled under all the quick transitions) but I'd like the car to rotate much better than it currently does.

Other than any issues that come up requiring repair and any preventative maintenance, I think the car should serve me very well as I learn. Nothing fancy, but still fun. As I wrap up Part 2 of Project Rookie, I am eagerly looking forward to Ascutney 2, but there is still plenty of work ahead. There's that other issue of trying to explain why I now own two Honda Civics, but it's just the way things worked out (see Lesson Learned #5). Maybe I should write to Honda and ask for a sponsorship or something. Team Civic? C2 Racing? Who knows what will happen between now and September, but for now I will just keep learned as much as I can with all my Honda Power.

Image

Like always, feel free to comment on or question anything I've written. Every bit of advise helps. Thanks for reading and I hope to see you all again on the hill soon.

-Lincoln
User avatar
sachilles
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:11 pm
Location: Waitsfield, VT

Re: Project Rookie

Post by sachilles »

I like the choice. Lots of possibilities, LOTS.
That should be a real good car for you. We have one that autocrosses with us regularly, that does very well. I can put you in contact with him if you like, he's got a lot of development time in to his.
Sachilles
02 Subaru impreza (Donut) #66
User avatar
sdwarf36
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:06 pm

Re: Project Rookie

Post by sdwarf36 »

Thumbs up to you Linc-big step in the right direction! :P Before you start throwing bigger sway bars and the like at it, try a few runs with what it has-you can't tell if something is an improvement if you dont know what it started out with. Someone older+ wiser than me once said " the enemy of good is better" -which has bit me in the ass more than once. If you have it in your mind to change the rear bar, if you do it now, you only know how the new one feels-if you do a weekend with the stocker THEN change it, you know how 2 feel.
Aluminum seats just supported by the tracks (if they are not FIA approved seats) isnt a good idea--and may not even be legal. They are meant to be attached at the base-AND the back-like to a roll cage.
Translating road racing to hillclimbing:
Proper tire selection== nothing hooks up on moss or wet leaves.
Staying on the racing line==anything paved is considered good.
User avatar
walterclark
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Dover, MA.
Contact:

Re: Project Rookie

Post by walterclark »

Couple tips.

Either retain the door panel on the drivers side or fabricate a lightweight replacement that covers the inside of the door. We require that all those edges and pokie things on a door be covered so they dont end up slicing or skewering your arm if it all goes wrong.

If you go with an aluminum seat - you need to brace the seat back. The usual way is to run a brace to a crossbar on the main hoop. Without a cage (for now) you could add what might be called a "harness bar" made from straight 1.5" or 1.75" DOM .095 thick bar running from B-pillar to B-pillar at about the height of the window bottoms and attach a brace like this: http://www.livermoreperformance.com/seat_mounts.html#ap to it. If the bar needs to be back further than the B-pillars you could fabricate something that welds into the lower rear window sill and floor then weld the bar to that. Dont buy one of those bolt in curved "harness bar" kits. They are not substantial enough for this. Or you could go with an FIA seat and forget the brace entirely.
The older I get the better I was.
User avatar
linc44
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:17 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Project Rookie

Post by linc44 »

Thanks for the tips!

I guess my next question would be, do I also need to brace the seat if I use a fixed back bucket seat (non-aluminum)that is not FIA approved?

I was given a pair of the seats below for free (not a picture of the red ones I got, but they are the same brand and model).

Image

They are not FIA approved. Can I use them or is it not even worth the hassle? They may not be, but they were free that's why I'm asking.
User avatar
Rabbit Farmer
Posts: 2260
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:37 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Project Rookie

Post by Rabbit Farmer »

Non-FIA seats need brace.

http://www.hillclimb.org/rulesregs.html
C. Seats
1. Shall be sturdily mounted and sturdily constructed.

2. Fiberglass and other lightweight seats must be framed and mounted at
multiple points. FIA seats do not require additional bracketing beyond their
normal mounting points.

3. Racing seats are allowed in Unprepared class and highly recommended in
Street Prepared and Prepared classes.
Go Fast VW & Audi parts at FastAddiction.com
User avatar
linc44
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:17 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Project Rookie

Post by linc44 »

Ohhhh, should have searched for that first. Thanks Steve.
User avatar
walterclark
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Dover, MA.
Contact:

Re: Project Rookie

Post by walterclark »

From what I read those seem to have been cheap "racing" look seats and probably intended to make a bunch of money for the manufacturer for a short time. It looks like they are no longer available from e-tailers and the brand name "Tenzo Racing Sports" web site is gone. There doesnt seem to be any information regarding testing or performance in actual racing (maybe because no one that cares about their ass would use them). Ricer forums have comments by owners of them that the bits you can see fall apart quickly, so imagine what the bits you cant see (like the structure) are like. Probably worth about what you paid for them. I would not use them to race. And yes they would need to be braced - but it is impossible to know if bracing would make them more or less safe.
The older I get the better I was.
User avatar
linc44
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:17 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Project Rookie

Post by linc44 »

I agree. They are certainly not very high quality and I'm not even sure I could mount a brace on them (it is not a solid seat back, just cloth over a tube frame from what I can feel) so there is no way to bolt or screw on the brace (unless I ripped the rear cloth portion off and drilled into that tube framing somehow).

All in all, I think these will end up on Craigslist for sale. Not worth the hassle for a sub-par seat. I'll have to be on the lookout for another seat option as the stock ones are completely shredded (it appears that a very hungry dog had quite a meal of anything covered with cloth in this car). Back to the drawing board.

On a positive note, I picked up a set of 14" steelies with nearly new Bridgstone Potenza Pole Position tires yesterday after work, so that leaves only stripping the interior and setting up an alignment on my checklist (Sherman's advice of waiting on the rear sway bar seems very valid, as I only have experience in "spirited" street driving with this car so far). Anybody have experience removing sound deadening and tar with dry ice? It appears to be the most popular method of removal, but I'm sure there are others too.

Thanks again for all the insight!

-Lincoln
User avatar
sachilles
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:11 pm
Location: Waitsfield, VT

Re: Project Rookie

Post by sachilles »

Removing sound deadening is a pain in the arse no matter how you do it. Make sure you allow yourself plenty of time before you start that project.

As for a seat, a couple good places to look for used stuff is racingjunk.com and the forums at grassroots motorsports.


If you go the route of a harness bar, might it make sense just to build a full 4 point roll hoop, so that you have the starting point of a cage?
Sachilles
02 Subaru impreza (Donut) #66
Post Reply