Anyone for tarmac rally?

[walterclark]

The organizers of RNY have been in touch with me about the potential of inviting hillclimbers to compete in 2 RNY tarmac events next season - one in late April and the other in late August.

The initial thought from them was, throw a right seat in your hillclimb car for a codriver and come run some fun roads in the Catskills. They even suggested they could accommodate non-registered cars by permitting the cars to be trailered from the central services to the stages. Of course there are a dozen things that make a hillclimb car and a rally car for tarmac potentially different and any of them might make the notion a no-go unless addressed satisfactorily (for the hillclimber), but still...

I mentioned that almost none of us would listen to a co-driver anyway so as a practical matter they could do away with that as a requirement... I also mentioned things like cages, tires, suits, H&NR, and restrictors are very different between FIA and NEHA (read would cost to conform) and except for those of us that ran Mt Washington or race elsewhere would be seen as unwelcome added expense.

Any thoughts?

[1450Racing]

What about sound restrictions Walter?

[STI NICK]

I would be interested, but if it meant swapping out for another restrictor I probably wouldn't be able to do it. It would be great if they could come up with a solution, but I understand there are a lot of differences

[downhilly]

I would be interested but if It meant going back to a mt.washington type set up such as stock turbo/restrictor It would be difficult. Switching set ups like that was tough. Any more info would be appreciated.
-K Rhoads

[walterclark]

Of course nothing is settled but some of the notions include sound limits the same as for our muffled event hills, and no restrictors. Probably would require proper (SFI/FIA) suits, shoes, gloves, harnesses and H&NR, which many of us already have but not all. This is kind of an insurance thing since all these things are the norm everywhere now and anything less could be considered negligent. Cages are perhaps the biggest concern (except for those of you who already have a full FIA cage) for me since we permit a LOT less in NEHA and some potential competitors are going to be unable or unwilling to make some changes (e.g. Mt Washington) even though still well short of current FIA. I know Don and the CTTC group struggled with this and so did some potential CTTC entries in the end. I would like for RNY to accept NEHA regs for cages in a "hillclimbers" class. We will see. I am pretty sure the events will require treaded tires, but the restrictions within that are pretty minimal now (e.g nearly every DOT labeled tire except the cheater slicks like the V710 and R6 style are OK) so long as they arent worn out. Since these are all weather events run on real roads (read not swept, featuring loose stuff, mud and holes in places) and run on by rally cars who dont think of the edge of the road as any sort of driving limit, being able to cope with a wide range of surfaces is generally better with some tread.

[britracer89]

Hey....some of us hillclimb types have done the two seater thing. So....how much is entry? supplemental regs? How much are pace notes? dates? Sanctioning org. (NASA, Rally America, etc.)?

[Pascal]

Im interested. I was actually looking at the Rally new york schedule a few days ago. Eventually I'd like to have a car that is legal and prepped for rally. But if there was some sort of hillclimb class that would be easier to enter in, it would increase the likelihood that I could enter in the tarmac events this year.

[4th2ndgendennis]

Very interested---maybe we could run under hillclimb regs....maybe even with no awards or something for the insurance worry warts.

Not as interested if major costs involved in changing the cars.

[walterclark]

Hey....some of us hillclimb types have done the two seater thing. So....how much is entry? supplemental regs? How much are pace notes? dates? Sanctioning org. (NASA, Rally America, etc.)?

The organizers have asked me to participate in the evolution of this notion as I am both a NEHA hillclimber and the Chief Scrutineer for RNY. So when I use the word "We" from here on it may mean we as I am part of RNY, or we as I am part of the NEHA community. I would like to see this as a win-win.

The dates are April 21-22 and August 24-25. These would be the actual days of competition. Things like tech, reccie, and registration are usually the day before.

Price per mile of racing is generally very good. The RNY events are normally broken into 2 regional days with at LEAST 50 miles of special stage per day and at least 100 miles for the national (USRC) or both days. We usually use each road at least 2 times but often with some variation. The stages for the tarmac events next year may have stages as long as 20 miles and as short as a mile. I know the principle committee - Ivan Orisek, Fran Gager and Mike Cosgrove have found some exciting new venues with great local support for 2012. I havent seen the roads but hear they should be quite fun. With this hillclimb class a possibility, I am kind of sad I wont be able to run. I am Chief Scrutineer for RNY so should be not also be racing. Then there is the issue that my whole 2012 budget has already been allocated to NEHA events and work to repair and improve the car, and at least for the spring event I dont think my car will be ready.

The RNY web site is: http://www.rallynewyork.com/. but previous event info such as entry forms and fees, supps and so on have been removed for past events and it will be a while before they are posted for spring.

I can send you a copy of the supps from last years tarmac event if you want.

Stage notes are usually included in the RNY entry fee along with a road book. Most rallys charge extra for the stage notes.

Entry fees have not been determined but are generally at the lower end of US rally (think $400-$500 per day).

The events are part of the USRC and New York Rally Championships, are run under FIA rules and are sanctioned by RNY, LTD. and not affiliated with RA or NASA. I am quite used to teching rally cars for RNY under RA, NASA RS, and FIA tech and safety rules and being familiar with NEHA rules - assuming for the moment we go by them for this class - that will not be an issue.

Co-drivers (required or optional) is an open item. I am in favor of making them optional but highly recommended. It will be impossible for any of us to memorize the stages in the time we have there. We will not have "practice" but "reccie" and as all of you probably know these are very different (Higgins at Mt Washington aside). A co-driver will help tremendously getting safely to the end of the stages. However I know adding an "active passenger" may not be cheap. You will need a suitable seat, harness, intercom (in the car and helmet) and maybe some changes to your cage if you dont have much on the right side now compared to the left. Not to mention the co-drivers personal gear - which I would assume is not incremental expense because you SHOULD, if at all possible, choose a co-driver with some experience, especially if you dont have experience participating in rally (just getting from place to place on time can be overwhelming to a rookie). Some cars just arent capable of having a co-driver, and I would like to leave the possibility open that some of us are better off alone. RNY might consider a sort of concierge or escort vehicle to help get the driver only cars from time control to time control outside the stages themselves if we were to have enough such entries.

Tires for the tarmac events has been a hot topic in the past but I think we have settled on rules that are pretty flexible. Slicks and cheater slicks are not permitted but they are not a good choice anyway. I think the BEST tire for this stuff is the Michelin/BFG tarmac rally tire. These are quite different from slicks in their handling but they do inspire confidence on varying surfaces where slicks engender terror on the same. I think this is largely because slicks are meant to run within their grip range and the transition from 100% grip to 0% is quite sudden, unnerving and common on regular roads - it is common to be beyond 100% when you may least expect it, such as encountering water/dirt/sand/gravel on top of the road in a turn. A tarmac rally tire on the other hand has lots of grip but its transition from 100% to 0% is quite gradual, predictable and thus controllable. If Joey is reading this I would like his take since he has run both slicks (at hillclimbs) and run (tarmac tires) at RNY.

I KNOW anything that need to be changed to meet the RNY rules that involves money is going to decrease the number of your entries and we want to avoid this if at all possible. Some things will be unavoidable because they are standard practice nearly everywhere but NEHA and liability insurance rates for these events are based on implementing these standard practices....head and neck restraints, race suits with FIA/SFI labels are examples of this. Anyway as the discussion goes on we will keep the impact of any requirements in front of us. Please feel free to ask more question or voice concerns so we dont make any poor assumptions and I will try to provide updtes as to where things are.

[sachilles]

This is on my bucket list to do. I'd do it in a heartbeat as long as my cage qualifies or can be made to qualify with minimal modification(ie not fully replace).
There is at least one vendor that rents head and neck restraints for about $100 a weekend, if that helps anyone out.
If I can't make my car qualify, I'd be happy to try out passenger seat duty for anyone.