I just picked up a used rabbit (from john stevens) that he used to hillclimb. I don't think the current cage would pass tech for a number of reasons. I was wondering if that would be the same as no cage or do I actually have to rip it out to run?
thanks David
old cage = no cage
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sciroccohp
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Rabbit Farmer
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Re: old cage = no cage
Im unsure how many rule changes there have been that could possibly make john's old cage invalid.... Perhaps none. Personally opinion is that a once legal NEHA cage is a lot better than no cage.
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walterclark
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Re: old cage = no cage
I cant remember the cage in the Rabbit. Tell me what you think may no longer be legal/enough, or take some pics.
Probably worst case, unless you think there are some bad welds or damaged tubes, is that it needs additions to be completely legal but short of the safety problems I just mentioned I dont see why it would have to come out for you to drive it under the breakout rule.
Probably worst case, unless you think there are some bad welds or damaged tubes, is that it needs additions to be completely legal but short of the safety problems I just mentioned I dont see why it would have to come out for you to drive it under the breakout rule.
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sciroccohp
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Re: old cage = no cage
the cage is bolted in, the 4 front ones look ok but the rear strut towers are only have one bolt, it was cut from one car to another and not sure on the joints, The door bar isn't bent it is cut, bent and rewelded and has N Canada stamped in it so not so sure it is DOM tubing. Maybe this doesn't matter but the main "legs" of the B pillar go down at an angle to hit the floor. The harness bar is kinda welded on but is not attached conventionally. That is all I can remember off the top of my head, the car is in MA and I just gave it a tuneup and had to go home.
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Mopar 151w2
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Re: old cage = no cage
I discussed this briefly with John a few years ago. The rear leg atttachments can be fixed by sliding a ~1/8" footplate under the current plate and welding the 2 plates together, then bolting the new footplate through the wheelhouse.
The cage is not likely to be DOM tubing - it's 20+ years old, out of an old rally car. I would'nt worry about the quality of joins and alterations - John is a good engineer, and the guys he got the cage from (Patten/Young/FUTO) know what for on cages.
You may need to upgrade the harness bar, as we have evolved as far as what we consider OK - Walter can provide particulars.
The cage is not likely to be DOM tubing - it's 20+ years old, out of an old rally car. I would'nt worry about the quality of joins and alterations - John is a good engineer, and the guys he got the cage from (Patten/Young/FUTO) know what for on cages.
You may need to upgrade the harness bar, as we have evolved as far as what we consider OK - Walter can provide particulars.
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sciroccohp
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Re: old cage = no cage
Just bought all new tubing last week for it and we are going to cut out the old in the next couple of weeks and put in a new cage.
We are going to try to build it to rally rules in case we ever decide to do that too.
We are going to try to build it to rally rules in case we ever decide to do that too.
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walterclark
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Re: old cage = no cage
Building to the current FIA fabrication rules (but using DOM - which is legal for rally in the US) is a good idea. You will get a solid safe cage.
Before you start cutting and welding think about your seat and the near future NEHA requirement for head and neck restraints. The reason this is important is two fold.
Head and neck restraints usually sit under the shoulder straps, effectively raising the straps as they go over your shoulders. Couple that with the recommendations that shoulder harnesses lead back to mountings at between zero and 10 degrees down compared to the 45 degrees accepted in the past (to decrease load on the spine in a crash) and you will find your harness bar is probably going to be significantly higher than it would have been in the past.
With a H&NR on sitting in your seat will the seat openings permit the correct strap angle? A lot of older seats will not. So you may need to decide on a new seat and get it in place before you layout the cage.
Also, the leading H&NR maker - Hans - recommends the harness straps be no longer than 8" from the bar to the back of the Hans. This is not a rule for any racing - yet - but their research suggests the shoulder straps be kept as short as possible which is significantly different from some recommendations of the past. I can see this along with the higher strap mounting, or something very similar becoming either required by manufacturers of safety gear and/or race rule making bodies eventually. Again you will want to have your seat positioned before making a final decision on the location of the main hoop with these in mind.
Before you start cutting and welding think about your seat and the near future NEHA requirement for head and neck restraints. The reason this is important is two fold.
Head and neck restraints usually sit under the shoulder straps, effectively raising the straps as they go over your shoulders. Couple that with the recommendations that shoulder harnesses lead back to mountings at between zero and 10 degrees down compared to the 45 degrees accepted in the past (to decrease load on the spine in a crash) and you will find your harness bar is probably going to be significantly higher than it would have been in the past.
With a H&NR on sitting in your seat will the seat openings permit the correct strap angle? A lot of older seats will not. So you may need to decide on a new seat and get it in place before you layout the cage.
Also, the leading H&NR maker - Hans - recommends the harness straps be no longer than 8" from the bar to the back of the Hans. This is not a rule for any racing - yet - but their research suggests the shoulder straps be kept as short as possible which is significantly different from some recommendations of the past. I can see this along with the higher strap mounting, or something very similar becoming either required by manufacturers of safety gear and/or race rule making bodies eventually. Again you will want to have your seat positioned before making a final decision on the location of the main hoop with these in mind.
The older I get the better I was.
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sciroccohp
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Re: old cage = no cage
I have the Hans already (we added a bar in the scirocco to make that work) and the seat holes are up enough for me. Also I sit way back so it the harness bar will probably be right behind the seat. We got all DOM tubing too. should be fun. Made the decision to replace the cage instead of entry fees for the rest of the year so hopefully I get out to the first ascutney next season.
